The Industry

Just a question to everyone out there, how to people get on crews...actors have auditions, crew have.....is it all word of mouth??

Actors are plentiful, that's why there are auditions for them! Tech crew are as rare as hen's teeth - if you ask at your local theatre company and say you want to do 'technical stuff' of want to be stage crew, you'll be welcomed with open arms!!
Trust me and tr it.

Thou infectious idle-headed haggard!

There are heaps of techs out there, just like actors. And just like actors it is helpful to have a special skill (actors may be more likely to be hired if they have skills in American accents or can juggle, etc. Techs are more likely to be hired if they have a certain licence, have used a certain piece of equipment etc.), and like actors, it is mainly word of mouth.

Techs do have production companies, but there aren't a lot of 'agencies' like what there are for actors. There aren't auditions, but most of the time there is a meet and greet (seeing if each person/company is compatible), but for larger companies or community centres/venues there is an interview.

If you're keen on getting into it, email me, as I am a Melbourne techie (even if you're interstate, it helps to have advice), and know most of the stuff you have to go through. I can also give you a list of courses, companies to talk to, etc.

A course is a very wise thing to do - acting you can get away with taking a few classes and getting lots of experience, but with tech there is a lot of stuff you have to be trained for. In Victoria, you can't legally work as a lighting technician (even just hanging the lights), without being trained. A lot of people don't have official training, but do work closely with someone professional, who trains them. This isn't the best way to go about it, because these days you also need safety training, which you won't get 'on the job'.

Hope that helps,

Na

> "A course is a very wise thing to do - acting you can get away with taking a few classes and getting lots of experience, but with tech there is a lot of stuff you have to be trained for."

IMHO a course can be a waste of time. I believe that hands on experience and a keen attitude to work is much more valuable.

> "In Victoria, you can't legally work as a lighting technician (even just hanging the lights), without being trained."

Can I just ask why it is illegal?
Might be silly to hang a light above someones head if you don't know what your doing, but i've never heard of it being illegal.


Thanks

MattC

Yes, hands on experience does help (well, duh!) :) but it's harder to get work I think, if you don't have some sort of degree. I have a diploma, but I think even having certificates as well makes you better off. Like actors, techies have to update their skills, especially as new equipment comes out all the time. A course can also be useful as a way of starting a professional career. Due to my course (at Swin.), I got my first professional job with my theatre manager at the university. I also met many people who I now work with regularly, including class mates, previous students and students who graduated after me. My lighting lecturer/theatre manager there is also a big name in the Melbourne industry, having taught many people who have gone on to high jobs in production companies. Being taught by the same person means I have at least one endearing quality about my skills - they can't complain about who (or what) I've learned from.

I'm not sure why exactly it's illegal (I'm sure it has to do with public liability somewhere down the line), but I've been informed of that by a number of professional technicians. I guess because you're working with highly dangerous equipment, and if not done by someone who has the right to do it, it can be lethal (imagine what would happen if someone hung a light and didn't know to put the safety chain on... and the light fell for some reason. Or the clamp wasn't tight enough... Etc. etc.)

Sure, there are other ways of going about being a tech, but having spoken to, and worked with, a lot of techies, a course (whether diploma, certificate or whatever) has been an asset, and no one will hire you if you don't know what you're doing (no one should hire you if you don't have the legal right to do the job you're being asked to do, and no one should accept or do a job that they don't have a right to do).

I'm sure you're correct about the legal requirements, but it doesn't mean they're necessarily best practice....it just means they're the only way anyone can think of to regulate the standards.



Na wrote:
>
> Like actors, techies have to update their skills, especially as new
> equipment comes out all the time.

Is there any requirement to update your skills after you have a qualification? Someone may have 'qualified' in 1983 with a certificate showing they knew everything about lighting equipment, but never worked in the industry since. The person without a qualification, who nevertheless has been working on current equipment, would understand it better.

> I guess because you're working with highly dangerous equipment,
> and if not done by someone who has the right to do it, it can
> be lethal (imagine what would happen if someone hung a light
> and didn't know to put the safety chain on... and the light
> fell for some reason. Or the clamp wasn't tight enough...
> Etc. etc.)

Again, things that someone with experience would be well aware of.


> and no one will hire you if you don't know what you're doing

This is true enough...it ought to be the REAL guage.

> (no one should hire you if you don't have the legal right to
> do the job you're being asked to do, and no one should accept
> or do a job that they don't have a right to do).

This is not the same as the previous statement above. A 'right' doesn't always equate to an 'ability'.


I'm being my usual argumentative self, of course, and I don't really have a suggestion for a better solution. But I am influenced by a parallel situation I recently experienced:

I used to be a scuba instructor. I not only know resuscitation and rescues, but I was qualified to teach others. It was the equivalent qualification to a St John's First Aid certificate and a Royal Surf Life Saving Society award.
I've since let it lapse, and so am no longer able to instruct, unless I take a refresher course. Now, I'm in total agreement with this situation...these are safety skills that ought to be regularly updated.
However, I was just employed on a camp for kids where, because I have no current qualifications, others with current certificates were put in positions of lifeguard when we did beach activities. And yet while supervising a group of about twenty 10 year olds, I realised that the two 'lifeguards' were spending almost the entire time with their backs to the water, talking to each other, building sandcastles or swimming in the surf alongside the kids; whereas I had automatically placed myself in a position where I was able to see the whole group, was half in the water and the most ready to enter in an emergency, and was apparently the only one doing regular headcounts...a child with a stomach complaint had been sent back to the campsite by her teacher, and the lifeguards had no idea that a kid had gone missing from the group..!

I'm sure there are equivalent examples in any field...the kid with the new certificate is not always going to know to do the job properly - something that they will hopefully learn with experience (and I pray not a tragic experience).
I understand that across the board the new public liability issues mean that everyone has to re-train and keep their skills updated...unfortunately this often means restrictive training fees... I hope the ones with REAL experience aren't weeded out in the process.

Cheers
Craig

> Yes, hands on experience does help (well, duh!) :) but it's
> harder to get work I think.

I have never completed a course and am having no trouble finding work. Of 2 people, one qualified with a diploma and certificates in lighting and the other a basic experience of lighting. I will pick the one who has a better attitude towards the job.

> I'm not sure why exactly it's illegal (I'm sure it has to do
> with public liability somewhere down the line), but I've been
> informed of that by a number of professional technicians.

I really can't see how or why it would be illegal to hang lamps if not trained. I can understand it being illegal (without the correct licenses) if you were rigging the structure that your lamps are hung from, or if you are using an ewp to gain access to hang your lamps.

> Sure, there are other ways of going about being a tech, but
> having spoken to, and worked with, a lot of techies, a course
> (whether diploma, certificate or whatever) has been an asset,
> and no one will hire you if you don't know what you're doing
> (no one should hire you if you don't have the legal right to
> do the job you're being asked to do, and no one should accept
> or do a job that they don't have a right to do).

There are as many ways into the industry as there are people. You make your own path.

I was hired at 15 years old to work every saturday with a hire company in melbourne doing very basic things. Today (22 years old), I work for hire company's, theatres and venues. And to that I am managing a small production company.

My tip to those starting in the industry. The only stupid question is the queston you don't ask.

I myself am not a trained technician as such, but I did study lighting and sound briefly at Curtin Uni. In regards to the issue of 'trained lighting technicians' MattC, from what I can gather from friends studying Lighting at WAAPA, its starts from understanding the nature and basics about electricity, to the safe work practices that one should adhere to.

I believe WAAPA techies doing lighting come out as some sort of qualified electrician. Can someone verify this? It makes sense that a lighting designer would be a qualified electrician.

Lighting technicians should also know what to do in the event of electrocution.

You've already mentiond the rigging part but perhaps the issue of hanging lights is in regards to having formal knowledge of how many amps or wattage (whatever, I'm not a techie!) is allowed on each dimmer channel and how that affects an electrical system.

I don't know anything about you MattC so I'm not making any assumptions about your qualifications or experience.

Just some thoughts.


Cheers,

Crispy.

Crispian wrote:
>
> Lighting technicians should also know what to do in the event
> of electrocution.


Hopefully, they know what to do to PREVENT electrocution.



And the lighting design course at WAAPA might have their finger on the switch, but I'd be careful of the Musical Theatre department or the Conservatory.....they have a lot of conductors...


Cheers
Craig

They do not come out as qualified electricians - electricians know how to rewire stuff, and of course some courses and certificates teach one how to maintain the equipment, but a qualified electrician and a qualified lighting tech are two separate things. The jobs overlap somewhat in the understanding, but I would be sued if I tried to rewire something.

Thanks for the input there Crispy.

The WAAPA course techies may leave the course with Electrical Trades Assistant license, which allows you to do everything but 'electrical work' eg terminate or install wiring or equipment.

I understand the risks involved of someone without the knowledge and experience to use lighting equipment, however i don't understand why it is said that it is illegal without being trained. Dangerous, but surely it's not illegal.
I see this the equivalent as someone using power tools. If you dont know what your doing it can be dangerous, but it's legal to use them.

crgwllms wrote:
> And the lighting design course at WAAPA might have their
> finger on the switch, but I'd be careful of the Musical
> Theatre department or the Conservatory.....they have a lot of
> conductors...

haha.

Cheers,
MattC

I have worked as a techie for 13 yrs now and have never heard of or been required to have a qualifiaction to hang a lamp. I know that some bigger employers soh etc require techies to have an industry recognised certificate before commencing work, purely to protect themselves.

A certificate or qualifacation is an asset but it is not the same as experience. A qualifaction needs to be backed by industry experience. A qualifacation may assist in getting you in the door to gain that experience, but so may persistence and determination.

Unfortunately some people with qualifactions come out thinking they now know it all and are able to tell those who have been doing for sometime how to do it. They don't last very long

As indicated attitude has a lot to do with it . I know people who don't have alot of experience who have been given a go because they have the right attitude and with time turn into a talented tech. It is also very much a situation of not only what you know but who you know.

"I understand the risks involved of someone without the knowledge and experience to use lighting equipment, however i don't understand why it is said that it is illegal without being trained"

I'd certainly check that with techies in your state before relying on that comment - they might be covered under laws concerning trade industries. For example, it's common in most states (to my knowledge) to have laws preventing people from working as plumbers, electricians, boilermakers etc without having the proper qualifications. That's not because a piece of paper is better than experience - in fact for most trades getting experience (as an apprentice) is a required part of getting that piece of paper. It's to protect consumers by allowing them to have confidence that if they hire a plumber, electrician etc they can rely on them being competent. It's a lot easier to check someone's piece of paper than it is to check whether they actually have all the experience that they claim to have.

It might be the case that some techie work falls under the laws relating to these trades, and hence requires certain certificates that you can get from doing the WAAPA courses. I wouldn't have a clue whether this is ACTUALLY the case, but it certainly seems possible, and so its worth checking out before you take the risk.

You''ll find craig that no license or certification is required to use lighting equipment and that anybody can go to a theatre lighting firm and hire equipment no questions asked. Certification is only required when replacing wiring, lamp bases, plugs or making general repairs to lighting equipment.

In a genenric sense it comes under Health and Safety regulations for a particular state requiring the employer to provide a safe working environment. As a guide to providing the employer with a means of providing a safe working environment, the worksafe people advise you to use Australian Standards and Codes of Practice and any legal requirements on trades areas such as a person requiring an electrical license in order to cacry out electrical work.

There are two categories of electrical licences, an electrical or contractors license that enables you to carry out building or "fixed wiring" and a restricted license that allows you to carry out a specific area of electrical work on equipment such as replacing a three pin plug or installing security equipment.

A new electrical requirement that has recently been created is the need to test and tag equipment to AS/NZS3760:2003 note that this is a standard and the requirement to do it stems from your workplace needs. In some Eastern States it is compulsorary, it is only required in WA if your employer decides to do it to reduce their insurance premiums for workers compensation, which can be a significant saving.
You do not need an electrical license to carry out testing and taging, the standards states you need to be a "competent person" which for convenience usually means doing a half day TAFE course if it is available.

The actual rigging of lighting bars etc has to be done by licensed riggers due to structural regulations. (Not my area so do not know any more).

The rigging of fixtures onto the lighting bars does not require a license but requires a safe working practice which will need reference to Australian Standards and Codes of Practice. In WA we have a new code of practice "Working At Heights" if you work more than 3.2 metres off the floor which covers most lighting bars in schools etc and requires you to wear a safety harness. As a safe working practice, you can purchase a 2.8 metre platform ladder that provides a safe working platform to access and rig lighting bars as you are walking up steps with a handrail provided and as this platform is less than 3.2 metres off the floor you do not need to wear a harness. Typical cost is $1200 for a platform ladder. It is providing a safer working environment as you cannot rig from an extension ladder without a harness. In professional theatre without flown bars you need to hire mobile work platforms which require a licens to operate.

In WA there is a Health Public Buildings Act that requires the use of safety chains on any theatre light that hangs above any area that the public has access to. This has been compulsorary for many years now and as the public has access to all areas of most theatres at some time we should see safety chains on all theatre lights everywhere.

Companies such as Julius Grafton (Connections Magazine ENTEC etc) and some TAFE colleges over east offer Certificate courses to cover all of the above points to ensure a safe working practice is carried out. These certificates are not a legal requirement but a piece of paper that makes it easier of an employer to document that they are providing a safe working environment.

There are cowboys in any industry and someone with a piece of paper may not be carrying out safe work practices. You will genrally not find inspectors in the workplace checking up on what is being done as it is self regulating, they come along as part of a coroners court when it is too late.

It is very hard to find rules or regulations that cover what you are doing, the best approach is to go through Worksafe in your state and hope you find the right inspector to advise you on the code of practice that covers what you are doing.

Hope that helps a bit.

Don Allen

Crispy,

Yes the Lighting and Sound streams do get a RESTRICTED electrical licence. This is very limited in what you can do but it also a very useful licence..

I attended the WAAPA course a few years ago.. IT has opened many doors for me and IMHO I do think that most theatre techs should have some formal training behind them..


Thanks,
Philip

Na,
as for your comments on electricians.. Some electricians do not know how to rewire technical equipment properlyand maintain it..

When I was there (at WAAPA) - I did learn how to rewire equipment, plugs, fault find, and Most importantly - Find and fix bad/incorrect wiring....

The restricited electrical licence does allow you to rewire equipment and cables. The only limitation you have it that you are not allowed to alter Fixed wiring... (I.e. the wiring in the walls, at the switchboard ect)


Hope the above clarifies things a little...

Philip

Maybe things are different in Melbourne...

My son would like to seriously progress in the lighting tech field. He currently lives in Melbourne (and is also an experienced drummer). I have searched the net but have not yet found a specific course that might do the trick.

Can you help.

Regards

Lee

VCA, Holmesglen, NMIT, Swinburne, all do courses, as well as production companies such as Showtech, etc. Check out www.alia.com.au, they should have info (they're the Australian Lighting Association).

NMIT and Swinburne both do a course which covers both acting and tech, and while not specifically lighting based, it is good to learn other areas too.

I think Box Hill TAFE do some lighting courses too, but don't quote me on that...

I'm a lighting tech, and stage manager, so email me if you want some more info. I'm in Melbourne too.

Na

Hello Lee

If you go to the ALIA web site http://www.alia.com.au/ there is a note for ALIA Training Expo for Sydney for 22 May that is for potential techs to go along to to find out who runs courses, what they cost etc.

ALIA will be running the expo in Melbourne and other capital cities, email Cat or Andy to get put on their mailing list, their details are on the web site, your son should join if he is going to work in the industry as their tours are a great opportunity to learn from touting shows lighting designers.

I got the email last week but have not kept it as they send them out as events update.

Regards
Don

Hi All,
Showtech have posted new dates for their federal Rigging courses along with ewp and forklift on our website at www.showtechaustralia.com.au

Juliusmedia also run certificate courses in Entertainment, these courses are run in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane & Adelaide, with the focus on OHS, Lighting, Sound & AV go to www.juliusmedia.com for more information on these courses.

Showtech are always on the search for new crew, as this industry is so transient, there are always opportunities to join our casual crew data base.
Our data base is not just focused to Riggers; we also have loaders, stage hands, lighting techs, stage managers etc.

There are also crewing companies such as Gig power Australian Crewing & lock and load that are also on the look out for casual crew to fill their data base.

Along with many of the lighting companies such as resolution x.

As you all know there may not be work all the time for your specific chosen field, but there is work for those willing to be multi skilled, loyal and hard working.

There is definatly not enough young crew coming through the industry and the "oldies" are more than willing to pass on their knowledge and skills to ensure the longevity of the industry we love

If you have any questions please feel free to call me anytime on 03 95877311