Omnibus Morals

Hello Grant,
Yes I can certainly see your point regards the issues of morals etc. As for a flawed analogy...perphaps but then it did work for Picasso :-)Again I say to you though..have you asked to see Omnibus books recently. Perhaps you may be surprised and perhaps they may show you. It appears you may have asked a few years ago, maybe someone should ask again and then the rights or wrongs of the issue can be further discussed.
I must thank you Grant for the opportunity that allows people to have their say in a non threatening and informative site such us this

Hi Carol> Yes I can certainly see your point regards the issues of morals
> etc. As for a flawed analogy...perphaps but then it did work for Picasso
> :-)hehehedid you want some gardening done?> Again I say to you though..have you asked to see Omnibus books
> recently. Perhaps you may be surprised and perhaps they may show you.
> It appears you may have asked a few years ago, maybe someone should
> ask again and then the rights or wrongs of the issue can be further
> discussed.If they showed them to me, what would it accomplish?The fact that the books are not open to the hundreds of volunteers who work on the shows is symbolic for what i consider to be the inappropriateness of the management structure of the organisation.Allowing me to see the books, or even publishing them to the cast of the The Secret Garden will not alter the fact that the volunteers have no rights and no say in the running of a company that survives entirely dependent on their effort.> I must thank you Grant for the opportunity that allows people
> to have their say in a non threatening and informative site such us
> thisThanks, Carol. It's been great fun setting up the site, but nicest of all is that it doesn't "belong" to me. It can get a little "threatening" at times, but that's why our web browsers and email packages have Back and Delete buttons. Besides the productive discussion and information usually far outweighs some of the more heated debate :)Cheers
Grant

> I must thank you Grant for the opportunity that allows people
> to have their say in a non threatening and informative site such us
> thisHere hereIts good to have a good argument every so often!
:)Good work

Don't you think that maybe that is taking it a little to far. From what i have read through carol (hi btw) Omnibus does not really have to show the books.I doubt that the papers would be interested in the story, and doing so could result in the demise of another Perth Production Company.James

> So do you think a newspaper might be interested in this ongoing
> Omnibus debate. I do. Ring Alison Farmer or Ron Banks or make a stance
> if you think Omnibus isn't all it seems to be.Umm what do you think Omnibus is and why do you think the newspaper would be interested? I should hasten to remind you that in this state the laws of slander and lible do apply so I think that the Newspapers are very careful about defaming companies needlessly. As I have pointed out previously, I am of the opinion that Omnibus is a private "company" which is not Pty Ltd and is merely a registered trading name. Surely Omnibus is not uniques surely there are other groups operating the same way within Perth. Operating , may I add in a totally legal manner

EMAILNOTICES>noSo, if Omnibus is doing everything it should be, what has it got to hide? Why *not* show the books, to show who gets paid and where the money goes to show it really only can operate the way it does at present?

Because legally they don't have to maybe?

Hi George & CarolGeorge wrote:
> Why *not* show the books, to show who gets paid and where
> the money goesIf the business partnership doesn't see fit to incorporate in order to protect the rights and interests of the volunteers working in their shows, then they are hardly likely to feel bound to open their books for anyone else.> to show it really only can operate the way it does
> at present?I can imagine only one reason not to incorporate and that is specifically so the business partners' have absolute control and can place their interests ahead of the volunteers involved. Can anyone suggest otherwise?Carol wrote:
>Surely Omnibus is not unique
>surely there are other groups operating the same way within Perth.I'm not aware of another theatre group that operates as a private company using volunteer labour, certainly not on the scale of Omnibus.Prompt Corner has been singled out for some attention in the past, but i understand they are incorporated. The questions in their case have been similar to those levelled at Omnibus. The association appeared to be making a fortune, tens of thousands in profit per show, and comments were made that this income was not reflected in either the technical standards of the shows, or their choosing to start paying some of the cast.>Operating,
>may I add in a totally legal mannerWhy do i feel that when people resort to this argument it is often to excuse activity that is otherwise reprehensible?"the law ... is an ass"Cheers
Grant

EMAILNOTICES>noSo do you think a newspaper might be interested in this ongoing Omnibus debate. I do. Ring Alison Farmer or Ron Banks or make a stance if you think Omnibus isn't all it seems to be.

Why do i feel that when people resort to this argument it is often to excuse activity that is otherwise reprehensible?"the law ... is an ass"Interesting comment. Unfortunately it is reductico ad absurdium. Like it or not companies and individuals must work within the legal frame work of our state. Right or wrong that is the way it is. I have not resorted to this line of argument it is simply a FACT nothing anyone can do about it short of canvasing the Fedral Attorney Generals Office to have such laws altered. I spend a lot of my time dealing with the legal system and indeed studying it and yes I have even had meetings with the Federal Attorney General over issues I am not "happy" with in an attempt to change things. It must be remembered that actors are not forced to volunteer it is a freedom of choice and they have chosen that path. If companies like Omnibus did not exist would these actors still be given the same oportunity to practice their craft and if so where and by whom? As I have pointed out before I have worked on 9 of the Omnibus productions without pay. I am also employed by professional theatre (when time allows)and I do have the relevent qualifications. Crazy, yes I possibly am but through Omnibus I have been given an opportunity to practice my craft and develop it. Perhaps the Actors have used Omnibus in the same manner..Just a thought ...could be wrong of course.
PS Grant it is a lovely day...would you like to do some weeding :-)

EMAILNOTICES>noSo what is Omnibus trying to hide then? Give us some hard facts about the operation and any scrutiny, hearsay or rumour can easily be dismissed.

Well, i disagree. They dont have to do anything, as Carol has established. The rumours i have ever heard about omnibus (in regards to this matter ofcourse) have only been heard on here.I think that the omnibus issue has recieved enough airtime, and should be just laid to rest before we all goet all sooooo involved that we all go mad
.
(trust me.... The hairs going grey over here already! :op )James

EMAILNOTICES>noWhy don't you want us asking questions about Omnibus? It sounds like as if they have something to hide...
Pure and simply, Omnibus takes money from the public. And any organisation that does that should - whether legally bound to or not - tell them where the money's going. Otherwise, for all they know Omnibus could be funding the Indonesian military... if they don't tell us, we simply don't know/

> Why don't you want us asking questions about Omnibus? It sounds
> like as if they have something to hide...
> Pure and simply, Omnibus takes money from the public. And any
> organisation that does that should - whether legally bound to or not
> - tell them where the money's going. Otherwise, for all they know
> Omnibus could be funding the Indonesian military... if they don't
> tell us, we simply don't know/For all i know, when you take money from people for working etc etc, or if you busk, I don't ask to see your bank account. You could be funinf the militia? Why does it matter anyway? Why is everyone soooo desperate to see their books?

Hi Carol>>> Operating, may i add, in a totally legal manner.
>>
>> Why do i feel that when people resort to this argument it is
>> often to excuse activity that is otherwise reprehensible?
>>
>> "the law ... is an ass"
>
> Interesting comment. Unfortunately it is reductico ad absurdium.
> Like it or not companies and individuals must work within the legal
> frame work of our state. Right or wrong that is the way it is.An interesting parallel is playing itself out in the media. Did you see the comments (reported p.1 today's West) by Julian Burnside QC, that while John Laws and Alan Jones had been "paid big amounts to push the cause of certain companies", they "had not broken the law"?Yet the ABA, and i daresay a fair portion of the population, regard the matter worthy of a formal inquiry.If we extended your line of argument, wouldn't we ditch the ABA inquiry and say there is no point, because Laws' and Jones' have done nothing "illegal"? What is the point of the inquiry if legal proceedings are not going to eventuate?If there is a purpose in holding such an inquiry, then similar reasons are likely to hold for informally debating the actions of the Omnibus partnership.*snip*> It must be remembered that actors
> are not forced to volunteer it is a freedom of choice and they have
> chosen that path.Perhaps this informal debate has an educative role to play? The actors' choice is not truly "free" unless it is informed. Many of them were possibly not aware precisely how Omnibus operated and how it differed significantly from practically all the other local theatre companies - or even that so many other companies existed!> If companies like Omnibus did not exist would these
> actors still be given the same opportunity to practice their craft
> and if so where and by whom?Absolutely!! There are seventy community theatre companies across Western Australia - nearly thirty in the metro area alone - producing literally hundreds of shows of all genres throughout the year. Many of them produce work as good and (dare i suggest it!) much better than that done by Omnibus. This website is intended as an information storage and clearing house for those companies, you can find out the "where and by whom" here.But most importantly: no-one, apart from the business partners, in Omnibus has any real say in what happens. If they don't like your ideas, there is nothing you can do, but leave. That's not much of an opportunity! On the other hand, if you become involved in an incorporated, community theatre, you have a say in what the company does and when, where, how it does it.> As I have pointed out before I have worked
> on 9 of the Omnibus productions without pay. I am also employed by
> professional theatre (when time allows)and I do have the relevent
> qualifications. Crazy, yes I possibly am but through Omnibus I have
> been given an opportunity to practice my craft and develop it.I hope you're not doing someone else's private gardening?Did you know that there are lots of beautiful, community-owned and managed parks and gardens where you would be valued and welcomed?*snip*> PS Grant it is a lovely day...would you like to do some weedingI do some of my gardening on the internet. Occasionally i spread manure in my little patch and it stinks for a while, but it's lovely to see all the flowers come up later ;)Cheers
Grant

EMAILNOTICES>noBecause we want to know where the money goes, give some people get paid and some don't, which does not seem fair and equitable, and if we saw the books, we could hopefully put this argument to rest because if Omnibus has nothing to hide, it would prove that is the only way the organisation could operate.

EMAILNOTICES>noRe: "if you become involved in an incorporated, community theatre, you have a say in what the company does and when, where, how it does it."... Only if the committee likes your suggestions. Otherwise they are dimissed.

Hi Kev,>> Re: "if you become involved in an incorporated, community
>> theatre, you have a say in what the company does and when, where,
>> how it does it."
>
> ... Only if the committee likes your suggestions. Otherwise they
> are dimissed.hehe you've got me ;)But wait a minute...How is this "committee" constituted?They're members just like you. You can vote them in or you can vote them out.Hell, if you're a nice guy, some people might even vote for you and put you on the committee where you can do some affirming or dismissing of your own!Try joining the "committee" of Omnibus.Cheers
Grant

EMAILNOTICES>noYou can still be a voice in the wilderness on a committee.