re:Omnibus Antes the Ups

well what can i say. i have read grants original message & the responses given, (hi to Brooke & James if your reading), firstly i'd just like to say that the tickets weren't $50 they were actually $35.I have been working with Omnibus for the past 3 years now (as well as many other amateur theatre co. around perth) & I was a cast member of the Secret Garden, I guess when it comes down to it I would have liked to have gotten paid (wouldn't we all) but it wouldn't be called ametuer theatre then would it???? technically it would be professional theatre & if that was the case then they could have used a big name as the lead like the syd. & mel. production used marina prior.
I'm sure that if any of us (that are involve in the co.) would like to see the books or where the money is going then they would be more than willing. but surely you must be able to see that it's going back into the theatre to produce bigger & better shows for Perth. basically you can't expect to be as lucky as people like chelsie gibbs (chicago) & walk straight out of wappa into a paid professional show with the lead role. if we don't start out doing unpaid amtateur theatre then how do we know that's what we want to do. alot of people that do this sort of thing do it for the pure love of the theatre & or are on there way to auditioning & studying at wappa (or other such assoc.)& i think you'll find that about 95% of people studying at wappa were involved in amateur before getting in & all shows they are involved in while at wappa are also unpaid, it's what you call experience, otherwise what are you going to right on your biog for you next audition - my name is fred flinstone & i like singing, i don't think that would work. seriously what do you care, you weren't the one that spent nearly the last year working on the show trying to get it on to the regal stage, for me(and many others) my pymt doesn't involve money, it's the satisfaction of knowing that i was involved in something so beautiful that made many of perth people laugh & cry while watching us do something that comes so natural to us, trust me when you love the theatre it's not a chore.
i have to ask grant, are you involved in theatre yourself or are you just someone that has too little time on his hands & way too many opinions. can you do us all a favour & hurry up & buy that ticket to england!!!!

EMAILNOTICES>no1. "grants original message" should have an apostrophe in Grant's.
2. "if your reading" - should be spelled "you're".
3. You spell amateur right first time but then fall in a hole in your other attempts.
4. It's not "wappa", it's "WAAPA" - an acronym for Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts.

EMAILNOTICES>noThe point is: why should everyone else in the production get paid but not the actors? Hardly fair is it, no matter how much you love acting?
Be a bit like everyone in the Government getting paid for their jobs, except the Democrats. They might love their jobs but why should they *not* get paid when everyone else?

do you have nothing better to do than pick on my spelling. who cares how it's spelt as long as you get my pointe! (gee i think i spelt that wrong too, what a shame)> 1. "grants original message" should have an apostrophe
> in Grant's.
> 2. "if your reading" - should be spelled "you're".
>
> 3. You spell amateur right first time but then fall in a hole
> in your other attempts.
> 4. It's not "wappa", it's "WAAPA" - an acronym
> for Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts.
>

EMAILNOTICES>noI thought you could at least get WAAPA right.

put it this way, anyone that thinks it's so unfair shouldn't be involved, we
don't mind thats why we do it... there are alot of poeple out there that do
things voluntarily, i also help out on camps for underprivlaged children,
should i get paid for that too?? if they did then they wouldn't have enough
to keep the camps running. same sort of thing i guess> The point is: why should everyone else in the production get
> paid but not the actors? Hardly fair is it, no matter how much you
> love acting?
> Be a bit like everyone in the Government getting paid for their
> jobs, except the Democrats. They might love their jobs but why should
> they *not* get paid when everyone else?

EMAILNOTICES>noIt's "underprivileged", not "underprivlaged"

EMAILNOTICES>no> i have to ask grant, are you involved in theatre yourself or
> are you just someone that has too little time on his hands & way
> too many opinions. can you do us all a favour & hurry up &
> buy that ticket to england!!!!As Grant hasn't replied yet, he must be busy with this site.Grant Malcolm Maintains this very Website. He is also a member of the ITA in an official capacity and has been involved in many productions. I even think he has had Adjudicator experience considering he RAN the Adjudicator Workshop just the weekend gone.Now I have been avoiding this argument for some time. I have done several shows with Omnibus and have enjoyed my time with them. I applaude their pursuits at becoming a full-time Pro company. I have gain a lot of experience from this organisation and will be every grateful to them for this. I have nothing against the Corp. members of Omnibus at all.However, I can also understand Grant's concerns over the APPARENT operations of Omnibus. They have wanted to "GO PRO" for sometime now. They have upgraded their performance areas - Great! They are paying some members of the Crew and Orchestra - Great! but they have still yet to make the last step and give recognition to the wonderful performers that have appeared on their stage, even if only partially.That is not to say that I believe that they have no real intention to do such a thing. I believe they do, and hope to see this eventuate very soon, but I fall to Grant's side in this arguement for the simple fact that More Professional support of Theatre is needed in the State.Now, to a personal bug-bear.
You stated that Omnibus is still an amateur company. It is not. It pays for certain members and that makes them (by definition) Professional. Besides that, they put on some very very well directed and entertaining shows, with a PROFESSIONAL ATTITUDE! Omnibus is a Professional Company in both aspects.It is only sad historical fact that the Performer (actor) has been the last element to be paid in a performing company. Yes, it's true that many would do it for the sake of doing it, I probably would too, but it can really hurt when you play such an important part in any show and the only reward you get is washed away when the clapping stops.The time draws nigh when Companies (like Omnibus) will have to make good on their promises and give all a fair break.Jeff "Alls Fair..." Watkins

EMAILNOTICES>no> put it this way, anyone that thinks it's so unfair shouldn't
> be involved, we
> don't mind thats why we do it... there are alot of poeple out
> there that do
> things voluntarily, i also help out on camps for underprivlaged
> children,
> should i get paid for that too?? if they did then they wouldn't
> have enough
> to keep the camps running. same sort of thing i guess
>You keep missing the point - why should some people be paid and not others? It's not that people happily do voluntarily work. We're talking about equitable treatment here.
Going by your logic, the show could still keep going if no one got paid. Why *aren't* the actors paid when they are the most crucial element to the show?

Hi Lisa,Glad you could join in :)> well what can i say. i have read grants original message &
> the responses given, (hi to Brooke & James if your reading), firstly
> i'd just like to say that the tickets weren't $50 they were actually
> $35.I'm happy to be corrected, but i had a press release from BOCS ticketing that listed "A Reserve" as $49.50. Mind you, the same press release still listed John Milson as Director.> I have been working with Omnibus for the past 3 years now (as
> well as many other amateur theatre co. around perth) & I was a
> cast member of the Secret Garden, I guess when it comes down to it
> I would have liked to have gotten paid (wouldn't we all) but it wouldn't
> be called ametuer theatre then would it????Precisely. Why were other people in the company paid and not you?> technically it would be
> professional theatre & if that was the case then they could have
> used a big name as the lead like the syd. & mel. production used
> marina prior.Uhuh, or maybe one of those WAAPA graduates looking for work? Then again, they've almost all packed and gone east.> I'm sure that if any of us (that are involve in the co.) would
> like to see the books or where the money is going then they would
> be more than willing.Ask.I know what the answer was 4 years ago. Do you know if it has changed now?> but surely you must be able to see that it's
> going back into the theatre to produce bigger & better shows for
> Perth.You have absolutely NO guarantee of this.I'll say it again, practically every amateur theatre company is an incorporated association. Incorporated associations are required by law to put their funds back into the core business of the organisation or pass the money onto another organisation that will. They can't pay themselves and they can't share the profits and scarper.*huge snip*> trust me when you love the theatre it's not a chore.
>
> i have to ask grant, are you involved in theatre yourself or
> are you just someone that has too little time on his hands & way
> too many opinions. can you do us all a favour & hurry up &
> buy that ticket to england!!!!Woah! Ad hominen argument. You've not really responded to my posts at all.Cheers
Grant

why do we have to get personal with rude remarks and comments? this is a place for freely expressing opinions, not insults!surely we can have an adult discussion without resulting to childish name calling and assumptions about what people are or are not like???we are allowed to have different opinions you know. the world would be a damn old boring place if we were all the same.it would also help if posts were read and understood and THEN replied to without people flying off the handle blindly because of an imagined slur...sheesh!right...got that off my chest.:)
Sharon

EMAILNOTICES>no> why do we have to get personal with rude remarks and comments?
> this is a place for freely expressing opinions, not insults!Hear, hear. Well said. I couldn't agree more. Personally, I found nothing childish or immature in Grant's comments. He is, after all, entitled to his opinion, especially considering his experience and involvement in the industry.
Not wanting to delve into nasty comments myself, but my first thoughts were that it was very childish and immature to name-call.James, it all fine and well to be passionate about things, that there is also a need for rationality.Jeff "Rationed Daily" Watkins

Omnibus has been there for many up-and-coming-talent. And just because they don't pay there actors, and because they don't show everyone their books doesn't mean that they are gonna piss of (pardon the language) and then run away with the proceedings. Although your opinion is that they might. If Omnibus suddenly decided not to put on a show (and by the way i know of the next 5 Omnibus shows) there would be alot of questions asked.In 1995 i did The sound Of Music at the Maj. I played a kid, but i didn't complain because i didnt get paid. Other actors were getting paid, and then there were the kids (the most important thing of the whole plot) and we didn't get paid. This didn't spark a whole line of upset mumblings. People do what they choose. I'm sure that maybe one day omnibus will pay some, if not all of their actors, but this could result in the demise of another one of Perth limited suply of theatre companies.Omnibus is one of the remaining companies in WA that actually do provide decent shows, and they care about their cast and crew. Just because in your mind they should be doing this and that, doesn't mean that they are not good.One can only wonder following alot of your immature and outright rude resxponses, whether people are sore about not getting cast in an Omnibus play, and therefore will try their hardest to ruin the reputation of OmnibusJames HarleyPS Hi lisa and brooke
:)

OK I have a question.
I'm not really privy to this whole Omnibus thing and I havn't seen any of their, I'm sure, excellent productions, but just to clarify; on what grounds is it decided who gets paid and who doesn't?Leah

EMAILNOTICES>no> OK I have a question.
> I'm not really privy to this whole Omnibus thing and I havn't
> seen any of their, I'm sure, excellent productions, but just to clarify;
> on what grounds is it decided who gets paid and who doesn't?That's part of the problem, I don't think there are any real solid grounds (as such) on deciding these things. It comes down to the Type of organisation and whether or not they fall under the juristiction of the MEAA and other Union -like organisations. For those that don't, there is no real policing.At least, not that I'm aware of.Question : What is the real difference between a MEAA or other union member and non-members? What protect can the Unions really give members? That is, is there any situation where a Company HAS to hire a professional performer for certain parts, or is there no policing here either?Jeff "Out on a limb" Watkins
-- Put that saw away.

EMAILNOTICES>no>
> Omnibus has been there for many up-and-coming-talent.
- No one is disputing this.And just because they don't pay there actors, and because they don't show everyone
> their books doesn't mean that they are gonna piss of (pardon the language)
> and then run away with the proceedings. Although your opinion is that
> they might. If Omnibus suddenly decided not to put on a show (and
> by the way i know of the next 5 Omnibus shows) there would be alot
> of questions asked.You have jumped to this conclusion, not us. We would like to see how the books are balanced to see if it really is impossible to pay the actors.
Who is going to ask the questions? That's a very sweeping statement with absolutely no evidence presented to back it up.> In 1995 i did The sound Of Music at the Maj. I played a kid,
> but i didn't complain because i didnt get paid. Other actors were
> getting paid, and then there were the kids (the most important thing
> of the whole plot) and we didn't get paid. This didn't spark a whole
> line of upset mumblings. People do what they choose. I'm sure that
> maybe one day omnibus will pay some, if not all of their actors, but
> this could result in the demise of another one of Perth limited suply
> of theatre companies.You're entitled to choose, of course. No one is disputing this. It just seems there is a lack of equitable treatment is some people get some form of gratuity while others don't.
Perth doesn't have a limited supply of theatre companies - professional ones perhaps, but there are plenty of theatres out there.> Omnibus is one of the remaining companies in WA that actually
> do provide decent shows, and they care about their cast and crew.
> Just because in your mind they should be doing this and that, doesn't
> mean that they are not good.Of course not. But it's all a matter of opinion of what a decent show is, isn't it?> One can only wonder following alot of your immature and outright
> rude resxponses, whether people are sore about not getting cast in
> an Omnibus play, and therefore will try their hardest to ruin the
> reputation of OmnibusAny organisation taking money from the public for whatever reason should always be accountable. And if Omnibus has nothing to hide, why are they not willing to open their books?

Point one: I am exactly doing that! Expressing MY opinion
Point two: I am a child! Ofcourse i act childish

EMAILNOTICES>no> Point one: I am exactly doing that! Expressing MY opinion
> Point two: I am a child! Ofcourse i act childishIf you only act childish, aren't you limiting your range as an actor?

Hi Dave> I suspect someone doesn't know nearly as much as she'd like to
> think she does about theatre in Perth, when she has to ask who Grant
> Malcolm is.
>
> I won't elaborate on Grant's huuuuge wealth of experience in
> Perth theatre, but I will say this:erm... hehe thanks Dave (et. al.)before the hyperbole gets entirely out of hand....The Internet can be a very anonymous medium. Unless you have met a correspondent "in the flesh", the only way you can judge whether or not to accept what someone says as true, is to carefully read what they have to say and how they support their argument or idea. Even then, it doesn't mean you have to agree.Support from others can be meaningless. Unless, people in the debate know you personally, you could just be me posting under another name. Debates have to stand on their own merits. It's a shame this one has strayed into ad hominen argument - on both sides :)> P.S.: When is this somewhat slow message board going to evolve
> into a fully fledged newsgroup? 'aus.theatre.perth-community' perhaps?ah! something i really would like to talk about!!The new message boards are very nearly ready. We're not likely to ever make full newsgroup status - although the site sees about 5 times the traffic of aus.theatre - but a new feature is very likely to be the ability to email responses directly to the boards.hehehe Brooke should appreciate that!Cheers
Grant

EMAILNOTICES>no> Point one: I am exactly doing that! Expressing MY opinion
> Point two: I am a child! Ofcourse i act childishWell then, it's time you realised that there is a difference between expressing your opinion and just being downright rude.

EMAILNOTICES>noWell said.Nuff' said.Jeff "Nuff'ed" Watkins

EMAILNOTICES>noGrant, when did you change you name, and does you wife know?Jeff "Jiff in N.Z." Watkins

heheheheum, i didn't write that! it wasn't me! i didn't do it!ahem...um..i'll be glad when the new boards go up...i assume this sort of thing won't happen on them;)Sharon

> Well then, it's time you realised that there is a difference
> between expressing your opinion and just being downright rude.I personally found everyone elses comments rude aswell. Im allowed to express my opinion in any way that i want to, and if i want to be childish about it, so be it. As everyone has said, your entitled to your opinion.

> i have to ask grant, are you involved in theatre yourself or
> are you just someone that has too little time on his hands & way
> too many opinions.A question mark at the end of that would have been nice, but...I suspect someone doesn't know nearly as much as she'd like to think she does about theatre in Perth, when she has to ask who Grant Malcolm is.I won't elaborate on Grant's huuuuge wealth of experience in Perth theatre, but I will say this:When a thread turns to insults because someone's backed into an intellectual corner, and takes blatantly ignorant swipes at respected artists (in lieu of not being able to make an informed response), one is reminded of the worst of the bitchy newgroups.Kick your cat if you're angry... don't spew your ignorant bile here, luvvy.Yours with suspicion,
David the Meadows.P.S.: When is this somewhat slow message board going to evolve into a fully fledged newsgroup? 'aus.theatre.perth-community' perhaps?

EMAILNOTICES>no>> I personally found everyone elses comments rude aswell. Im allowed
> to express my opinion in any way that i want to, and if i want to
> be childish about it, so be it. As everyone has said, your entitled
> to your opinion.By being childish, you diminish your chances of us taking you seriously.

I have recently become aware of the banter with regards Omnibus on this site and I have decided that I too shall add my own opinion to this debate. To begin with I have "worked" for Omnibus in the capacity of either SM or ASM for 9 shows over a period of 4 years. Hence, I AM crew. For the record I would like to point out that I am NOT paid. I DO attend nearly All rehersals over a 10 to 12 week period. This amounts to a minimum of 120 hours of attendance at rehersals without pay.This is MY choice. It is also the choice of the actors who audition for Omnibus.
As for paid musicians perhaps the story of Piccaso is most appropriate.
A woman saw Picasso in a cafe in Paris she approached him and asked if he would so a sketch for her. He obliged. He then charged her an outrageous fee for the sketch that took him 5 miinutes to complete. When the woman compalined about the price Picasso said that he had charged her for A life time of experience and not just for the five minutes it took to complete the sketch.
Hence perhaps the musicians (who read sheet music) are also compensated for a lifetime of learning. Of course the same can be said of SOME of the actors but many of the actors I have "worked" with have not been to the WAAPA and indeed Omnibus has been the first theatre company they have EVER been involved with. No doubt there will be many more comments yet to come.

EMAILNOTICES>no> As everyone has said, your entitled
> to your opinion.And I do not deny you that right to have an opinion, when you have one. All you have demonstrated so far is the ability (or lack there-of) to Character Assassinate.To help clarify any confusion - Opinion - 1, Judgement or belief BASED ON GROUNDS short of proof, provisional conviction, view held as probable.Explain your grounds and reasoning, then your convictions can be accepted as an opinion as opposed to defamation.Jeff "Getting Particular" Watkins

It has not been my intention to perform character assasinations, and I am quite offended that you accuse me of doing so. I am sorry if things were taken in the wrong way, but i jsut couldnt see the point of this whole argument. WE do not really need to see the books, and i do not believe that it is a right that we should be entitled to.I am extremely offended by your comments in the last post. An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Myt arguments may not have been well structured or carefully planeed out, and maybe have only harmed my case, but what i have said is what i believe. ANd i am not the only person who is oging around assasinating characters, and if you read the other messages in regards to this matter, you will see others who have done the same, aswell as attempts to completely defame the name of Omnibus Productions.James

EMAILNOTICES>noAn opinion only has merit if it is an analysis of the facts, not hyperbole.

When I open my gob - I expect to be shot at or at least some response, if I don't get any I worry that my opinion is not worthy, as I cannot see the nodding or shaking of heads from here.At least you get a response - being good, bad or ugly?Maybe I should email mine to Mr Speling 'B' and have it edited prior to posting, I hope he does grammer as well? But, by that time the fire has gone out - so is not this way better?No one will physically have a go - although there are times when I feel a static reaction from the screen? If this was a face to face it would not be the same.Pick up your dummy, wipe it and keep it cocked and armed. Have coffee, nicotine or what ever is your want at the time.Ignorance is bliss (I must experiance 'IS' one of these days?}Joe 'IS-less' McCabe