Draft of Test & Tag standard available for comment on ALIA web site

Thu, 7 Jan 2010, 08:39 am

anothertech27 posts in thread

From Andy's post on the ALIA web sit: Draft of Test & Tag standard available for comment Posted on Monday, November 23rd, 2009 The draft of DR 3760, In-service safety inspection and testing of electrical equipment is available to comment on. The closing date for comment on this draft Standard is 12 February 2010. This draft is a revision of AS/NZS 3760:2003, and specifies procedures for the safety inspection and testing of low voltage single phase and polyphase electrical equipment, connected to the electrical supply by a flexible cord and/or connecting device. This draft also includes fixed RCDs and portable inverters. NOTE â€” Additional requirements for portable generators are covered by AS/NZS 3012. [Hint: This draft will look VERY much like the final version which will cost you abut $100 to buy, so it's well worth downloading - even if you don't intend to make a comment.] You can download a copy of this draft from the ALIA web site. http://www.alia.com.au/standards/Draft_3760.doc

Thread (27 posts)

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anothertechThu, 7 Jan 2010, 08:39 am

Peter ProbertFri, 8 Jan 2010, 12:21 am

AS/NZS 3760 Draft

Well done! All involved with theatre i.e. management and certainly techies should have a copy - and comply! Peter - alias Lead Auditor ISO 9001/AS 4801

JoeMcSat, 9 Jan 2010, 10:10 am

I wonder if it will

I wonder if it will take rejection of insuranse claims, to get our comeatre commitees to comply? Probably not untill they get a major insurance claim knocked back for someone frying!

I ran out of time to instigate PAT testing & Tagging at Phoenix, hopefully someone will find the Log Books & carry it on?

LogosSat, 9 Jan 2010, 03:59 pm

Well

I have a small amount of equipment of my own that I am currently testing and tagging, I have reached item no 263. This of course includes over 150 extension cables. It's hot, some of the gear is quite dusty and I'm getting sick of it. But if i didn't have up to date testing records and had an accident I'd be in deep poo. The Fringe is coming up and most of my gear will be hanging in theatres. I find it difficult to convince some of my clients that their equipment must be done. I have one client who strongly resists my insistence very year to test and tag her cables. She doesn't seem to think she should have too. The reality of the law seems to be lost on some people. She tends to say " but you tested all my gear last year surely it doesn't have to be done again." Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

JoeMcSun, 10 Jan 2010, 09:18 am

Your obviously doing 'it'

Your obviously doing 'it' far too cheap - Chop one of her plugs off! ;) ;-)

crgwllmsSun, 10 Jan 2010, 04:01 pm

Testy

She's partly right - If her cables have been stored away safely and not used since last time, there is probably no practical reason why they should need testing again. However, so are you - the law requires equipment to be in current test status if it is being used...full stop. If there are a large amount of cables, lights etc simply sitting in storage for some unforeseen future time, it would seem a waste of money to test them annually for no immediate purpose. A solution might be to gather them together in a clearly marked "out of test" storage bin...and make certain that they DON'T GET USED. Items that have been tested and tagged can be in free circulation; and if ever a project comes up which requires use of the surplus equipment, it could then be tested before putting it to use. The risk (legal risk, and physical safety risk) is if any of the untested equipment ever gets put into circulation. Even though it may be in pristine condition, without a current annual tag there is no way of knowing...so it simply has to be done.

LogosSun, 10 Jan 2010, 05:08 pm

No her gear is used all the

No her gear is used all the time.

I do store some of my gear in "out of test: status." Particularly some very specialised kit I own and some of my older kit that doesn't get used often. If the need arises it gets cleaned checked and repaired if necessary before it goes out. This year however I am looking at everything I own and stripping some of the older gear for parts to keep the stock going.
Charging is an issue.
1/ I don't like to undercut others too much it screws them up. Some people however in my opinion overcharge madly.
2/ I understand very clearly how much it costs to keep a small theatre running and don't want to make it more difficult.
3/ I need to make a living or I won't be here to help out in future.
Balancing those three can be a major head issue.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au

anothertechSun, 10 Jan 2010, 09:43 pm

Practical & Affordable Test & tag

Well done Craig, you have got it correct. Providing a safe work environment needs people to be able to work with the system set up by an organisation to manage the potential risk to their employees/members and the public when using portable electrical equipment. There is no use setting up a regimented system of testing and tagging every 3 months if you go broke paying for someone to do the test & tag. If you are not using the equipment, it can be quaratined in a room as being clearly labelled as serviceable or unserviceable. With a sign on the door stating that any serviceable item taken from the room needs to be inspected before use by a competent person before being used. Any unserviceable item needs to repaired then tested and tagged before use by a competent person. If no label fitted then it has to be tested and tagged before use. AS/NZS3760 allows for a testing interval to be determined in conjunction with a risk analysis by competent people. There is a table with recommended test intevals for those organisiations that are unable to justify a variation in test intervals. AS/NZS3760 does not state you have to test and tag every piece of electrical equipment. There is provisions for non hostile environments and new to service equipment where a regime of visual inspections by users before every use is acceptable, reinforced by regular workplace inspections by supervisors and persons responsible for the workplace. What AS/NZS3760 states is that every piece of portable electrical equipment has to be Tagged. For a guide on how to ecconomically implement testing and tagging, have a look at the University of Western Australia Electrical Equipment Safety Policy http://www.safety.uwa.edu.au/policies/electricalpolicy

Peter ProbertMon, 11 Jan 2010, 12:47 am

Getting it right ...managing risk.....

I'm enjoying the banter re test n' tag. Whilst the requirement (for test n' tag) is specified, the crux of the matter is the status of electrical equipment must be identified. Equipment not meeting requirements (non-conforming equipment) requires corrective action to fix the situation. Labelling will identify if it is out-of-date. Out-of-date equipment means it is non-conforming. This identification prevents inadvertent use. Comparing to a motor vehicle in regular use â€“ the vehicle is subjected to a routine date for servicing â€“ say annually. If not in regular use, the vehicle equipment is inspected prior to use â€“ say when wheeled out of the garage. Equipment not in use does not need to be tested and tagged for the sake of it - it has to be fit for use at time of use. Routine testing is preventive action, making sure it is always fit for use. Corrective action is taken to fix an out-of-date situation. Equipment can therefore be allowed to go out-of-date (non-conforming) which is identifiable by the tag and should be quarantined to prevent use. When required for use, it is tested and made conforming i.e. tested and tagged. Labelling provides for identification. Where theatrical equipment is used continually the equipment is tested and tagged according to the Code. Where used on a seasonal basis, it can be tested and tagged prior to use. A good techie should check out the gear anyway prior to use â€“ this is the time for testing n’ tagging. Forgive me for I indulge............ ISO 9001 â€“ Standard for Quality (of) Management says it all - often poo-pooed by many but it does work when applied……… AS/NZS 3760 specifies the requirement, ISO 9001 provides for the process …. Peter - Registered Lead Auditor ISO 9001

anothertechMon, 11 Jan 2010, 08:28 am

False sense of security

One of the main problems with Testing and Tagging is that it can create a false sense of security, as people feel safe when they see a test tag on a piece of portable electrical equipment, but they may not be safe as the equipment may have become faulty since the test date. Or worse still, the person testing and tagging is incompetent and is putting test tags on faulty equipment. It is important for any organisation to set in place the procedure of having users visually inspect any piece of portable electrical equipment before they use it and if there is any doubt as to whether the equipment is safe to use, have it taken out of service and labelled so no one else will use it. Then arrange for the equipment to be repaired by someone that has the competency and relevant license if required to repair the equipment. In the example of community theatre this means front of house, wardrobe, catering as well as all technical areas visually inspect portable electrical equipment before us so that we can provide a safe working environment.

JoeMcMon, 11 Jan 2010, 08:56 am

We are slack!

I wonder how many comeatre groups do actualy have a 'Log' book, or for that matter have any form of PAT testing &/or risk assesment in place? This is not only with electrical equipment, but also for sets & any 'House' safety procedures, be they for general work place or in an emergency.

How many group commitees actualy ensure thier FOH, SM's or techies know what to do in the case of fire, evacuation or an electricution. Do they have practices in place to deal with these situations or is it just easier to chuck the bodies outside the fence line to save on the paper work!

Peter ProbertMon, 11 Jan 2010, 01:48 pm

Test n' Tag ad nauseam - AS 4801/ Risk Mitigaton - and Liabiity

AS 4801 Standard relates to OHS management systems - specification with guidance for use. There are 2x clauses of relevance to the previous writers’ comments: Cl 4.4.6 Hazard identification, hazard/risk assessment and control of hazards/risks Cl 4.4.7 Emergency preparedness and response Industrial and commercial organisations complying with AS 4801 show evidence of same to comply. I know not of any theatrical organisation that recognises this Standard - mores the pity - in practising safety in a high risk "industry"........ Whilst on my hobby horse, how many companies are NOT incorporated. I was involved in a big litigation matter with a Co in Melbourne and only after the event was the liability of individuals protected by the incorporation of the company.....BEWARE..... Regarding the “false sense of security” comment â€“ true - it behoves of ALL individuals to protect both themselves and those around them regarding safety management. If in doubt, shout……. DO NOT ASSUME…………. Assume means ASS YOU AND ME. The word "assume" is anathema to safety management.... It amazes me that theatre seems to be in its own world â€“ I am prepared to be corrected, please…………. Peter

LogosMon, 11 Jan 2010, 02:36 pm

Peter

From my experience the top end of the professional world is very compliant in all of these areas. I have on several occasions had to produce risk assessments for the bump ins of touring shows going to upper end houses. The degree of compliance seems to drop as you move down through the small scale theatres into the amateur spaces. Now don't get me wrong I have worked in some small scale and amateur spaces that have very good procedures in place with compliance registers, full test and tag programs and risk assessments but a surprising number of these spaces seem to believe that the rules don't apply to them as they are amateurs. It is a constant battle to make them realise that the rules do apply to them and they have to comply. Fringe companies seem to suffer the same short sightedness. I do my best. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

David AshtonMon, 11 Jan 2010, 07:47 pm

tagging

I have only 4 problems with the test and tag regime in the schools I mainly service; 1 the testers test and tag the patch panels, this is completely meaningless and unneccessary, but very easy and profitable. 2 the testers do not test lights in the roof because it is not cost effective to pull them down, test them and put them back 3 the testers do not understand what is legal, so they tag as safe par 64's with single insulation lampholders 4 the testers fail lights like Pacifics as the yoke is not earthed even though it is not required to be. So this huge cost does absolutely nothing for safety, it actually reduces safety as people think that tested gear is safe, it often is not.

Peter ProbertTue, 12 Jan 2010, 01:20 am

Compliance and all that..........

Thanks Logos - I understand and agree with your comments - I work(ed) with Whitehorse Musical theatre for years - being a co-founder - WMT is an up market "amateur" company. They stage in a fully fledged theatre - The Besen - where safety is rigidly practised. I am dabbling for my sins with a tiny organisation of the type which makes me shudder - where "they" consist of a bunch of people who do not know and as you say think there is some immunity from real life risk mitigation controls. The "she’ll be right syndrome........" (Why do I do this……..? They hate me.) As for the comments from David, agree again, unfortunately like many compliance activities there are those where the motions are apparent and the true depth is not. These are the situations where when the proverbial hits the fan, questions are asked........ If the service provided does not meet requirements it is non-conforming and should be rejected......... Knowing as you do (of the short cuts and imperfections) you are party to a liability so watch out for that one……….. I have learnt from the school of hard knocks, there’s only one way to do things and that's the right/correct way. As sure as eggs you'll get bitten if you don’t. Get it right the first time……. I enjoy being a (non-financial) systems auditor - my grey hair comes to the fore knowing what happens out there and the tricks that are tried and played……been there done/seen that - and seeing a lot more as I travel life's highway.......speaking as a Chartered Engineer by the way. Great chat guys - Peter. Let’s do it right ay?

RapunzelTue, 12 Jan 2010, 08:51 am

Is there a way.....

I suspect part of the problem is that T&T is not seen as "sexy". Like all general theatre maintenance and cleaning. It's boring, horrible, no one likes to do it (well, most people don't!), it's dirty, etc. etc. People generally prefer to avoid the daily grind that goes into running a venue/company and do the "fun" stuff. I guess it's human nature?! But then I've always suspected that technicians generally aren't human (ducks and runs from room to avoid things being thrown at her, it's a joke!) "Life is too short to stuff a mushroom"

JoeMcTue, 12 Jan 2010, 10:36 am

Vicarious liability & other

Vicarious liability & other tort terms come to mind, while thinking on 'what we are about'?

Especialy in this game, which has to be potentialy one of the most dangeous, yet we & our leaders are quite adept in applying the basic principles of the 3 D's {Duck, dive 'n disapear}.

You don't have to look too far to pick up upon non compliance, just become a punter & check it out.

Peter ProbertTue, 12 Jan 2010, 10:06 pm

All good stuff.......

Gaafa and Rapunzel â€“ Oh so true.. “Let’s dance and prance in the pretty lights” â€“ then let’s run for cover. Love the 3xd's..... Duck, Dive and Disappear. Oh so apt. “She'll be right....” (Never hear this term today - gone from our vocab) - but it's alive and well on the deck... Ignorance is bliss; name of an olde pommie radio show of yesteryear. I’ll throw in another management system wobbly here and that’s the term responsibility AND authority. We are all responsible (for our actions) but few have authority (as in power of decision). The Stage Director/Producer probably has this clearly â€“ all other decisions i.e. T&T being the topic â€“ is that of “other’s â€“ who are never defined…. As you say anything technical is not sexy â€“ but it depends on what turns you on .. I still broom the stage when everyone's gone - someone's got to do it........Muggins Moi? I make it my authority to do it and guess what, the ubiquitous “they” let me get on with it....! Peter Forgive me folks for I indulge…………….

JoeMcThu, 14 Jan 2010, 12:29 pm

With the POHMy radio show,

With the POHMy radio show, as I was just a wee'n at the time [so not much has changed there!] I don't remember much about it? But what I do remember is a bit from aude Tom Gray's 'Ode to Eaton Collage'. "No more; where ignorance is bliss, t'is folly to be wise."

May be 'Aunty' could orginise a workshop or two about this an other related topics on H&S issues?

Walter PlingeFri, 15 Jan 2010, 03:18 pm

Testing and tagging

Hi All, I have been reading through your blogs as a result of a google search where I found the new draft 3760. As per normal, I find that every person has a different interpretation of the standard and every state has different regulations to amke it work. If you want to look at a professional testing and tagging company go to our site www.awtt.com.au. We pride ouselves on being upfront and honest towards assisting customers to achieve their levels of satifactory compliance to the legislation. We don't rip people off as we are an electrical contractor not a doggy one day course company. Anyway, It is good to see discussion regarding workplace safety and I have had my plug. Good luck with your theatre ventures and thank you for putting up the link to the download as even though we are within the industry, guess what no notification. It would have been nice to be asked in on the draft process, as we conduct a few more tests in the real world unlike the panel of academics and office bound manager that appear to be the decsion makers. ( not one professional testing company) Gripe gripe. But good luck anyway

JoeMcSat, 23 Jan 2010, 09:49 am

I doubt there are any

I doubt there are any ameatre venues or groups localy here that bother with safety, T&T, 'RA', policy rules &/or regulations.

This is quite obvious in the venues I have been in, who's edict seems to be "Just do it fast 'n cheap". Generaly engineered by the leadership of warm props 'n luvvies, which is like the blind leading the visualy impaired.

Walter PlingeFri, 5 Mar 2010, 10:41 am

Test & Tag

Hi All, For more info relating to Testing & Tagging your equipment please check out our website www.jimstestandtag.com.au. All of our technicians have completed thorough training through RMIT and are tested by Frank Zahra (industry leading electrical author, inspector and trainer). We are the only ISO9001 Certified Company within the industry that we are aware of so you can rest-assured that you are dealing with qualified professionals. We can also be contacted by phone on 131 546.

Chris KlugeTue, 9 Mar 2010, 08:31 am

Tip for test and taggers

Hi all, I get gear (particularly older gear) failing the earth test. I've discovered that giving the pins of the plug a scrub with some Brasso and steel wool and then cleaning the Brasso off with some metho can improve a result by more than 1 ohm. It also reduces resistance of the active and neutral pins, a problem that won't be picked up by the test machine. I tag over a thousand units annually at work and do a local theatre's gear as a volunteer so I get that it's boring. I've previously found some deadly gear doing it though (including an extension lead with plugs at BOTH ends once) so I know it's needed and well worth the time and effort. It costs less to train someone in test and tag AND buy a machine to do the job than most theatres would spend paying a sparky to test their gear just once.

JoeMcTue, 9 Mar 2010, 09:33 am

Good tips Chris.The main

Good tips Chris.

The main problem here locally [Perth] is to actualy get ameatre groups into doing PAT test or even basic cleaning & maintenance regimes of equipment. Generaly lanterns once they hung are regarded as a 'set & forget' situation. I doubt any would have a PAT test unit or even any tags. Except for possibly Melville Theatre.

There was a half hearted suggestion a while ago by some wally or other, that Aunty ITA actualy purchase a unit, that could be available to member comeatre groups to use as a hire or as a free member service. But I believe this was went down like a lead chook!

I think it is going to take someone to actualy get fried for this attitude to change, in the short term.

jeffhansenTue, 9 Mar 2010, 10:34 am

T&T

I was called by one of our local theatres (no names to protect the stupid), after someone received a shock from the patch leads where they hang near the dimmer rack. After an investigation, and asking the right questions, I discovered that the techs in the theatre were aware that there were two patch leads that needed to be plugged in together for either outlet to work. A quick check revealed that the neutral had been crossed over in the terminal strip that the patch leads were connected into. This meant that if only one of these plugs was patched in, the neutral pin on the other plug would become live. It wasn't until someone received a shock that anything was done about it. A T&T regime wouldn't have picked this up, as this part of the system is regarded as fixed wiring. It does, however, show that whoever did the original installation didn't carry out a complete test of their work. Should we PAT our patch system??? www.meltheco.org.au

anothertechTue, 9 Mar 2010, 04:03 pm

Patch Panels

I had visited a community Theatre that had an incorrectly wired patch panel and people were getting electric shocks from it, but were putting up with it because it had been wired up by a volunteer. It was told they fixed it straight away, I hope it is not still the Old Water Wheel. If you do not know the status of a patch panel, then test and tag it as it is plugs and sockets, not a fixed wiring install that is permanently connected to the fixed mains wiring. This is what testing and tagging does well, visual inspection, insulation, polarity. Two polarity tests should be done, the first using the appliance tester, the second using a neon style polarity tester with the lead plugged into the mains. The test mains supply should be rcd protected for this testing. After a test has been done on every "lead", that is from every plug to the end of every socket, you know the polarity is correct, so a visual inspection should be done every time the patch field is used.

Walter PlingeSun, 14 Mar 2010, 10:41 pm

Test and tag Services

Hi All, Safe T tag are an australian owned and operated company providing electrical safety services, testing and tagging of plug in electrical equipment and appliances all over Victoria. Our services ensure homes and workplaces are compliant with Australian Standard AS3760 2003. Visit our website for more details www.safettag.com

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