Carols by LED light

Wed, 16 Dec 2009, 11:20 pm

David Ashton12 posts in thread

Last week I lit a "carols", 2/3 of the audience had LED light effects and even LED "candles" Am I getting too old or is this an appalling development.The sound guy used the Mike Rane gain structure method so the sound was noisy and "strangled".Not an edifying night.

Thread (12 posts)

Threaded Flat

David AshtonWed, 16 Dec 2009, 11:20 pm

RapunzelThu, 17 Dec 2009, 08:12 am

Maybe, maybe not

LED is the new "fad" to a certain extent. I think it certainly has a place in the entertainment industry as a whole but am still not certain about it's place in theatre. I mourn the passing of carol events where you could have a real candle, with a real flame, safely nestled in a holder. Such a magical effect!! None of the LED "candles" I've seen can match it, yet. So yes, with the proviso that I wasn't there and didn't see it, I might agree with you David, an appalling development. I refuse to believe I am getting old though! I won't comment on the sound as I am totally ignorant in this area. Cheer up, it's nearly Christmas! (yippee?) "Life is too short to stuff a mushroom"

mike raineThu, 17 Dec 2009, 07:48 pm

I like LEDs

Tomorrow we are staging a carols night in the Town Hall . . . Glo-sticks and led candles will be universally present. Our insurers would not approve of naked flames in this building, and our weather does not approve of us holding an outdoor event. I will be setting up the PA using the 'Mike Raine' method . . . and it will be noise-free. That's because I have good gear and use good gain structure . . . not an assortment of mismatched vintage bits and pieces run by some apprenctice who has no interest in, or undestanding of, the quality of sound.

RapunzelThu, 17 Dec 2009, 08:25 pm

Ah yes

Ah yes, the delights of Tassie weather...frustrating isn't it?? Means we are stuck with fake candles, glo sticks and the like indoors. I remember at least three years in my youth when the weather was fine and the whole thing got transferred outdoors, hence the memory of real candles and the general effect. Was magical! We've all got to move with the times, and be safe above all, it doesn't stop me remembering and wishing newer generations could experience the same thing. I'm still not going to comment on the sound issue. "Life is too short to stuff a mushroom"

Noel ChristianThu, 17 Dec 2009, 10:10 pm

LED for Christmas

David

It is an appalling development. Most are. It is also inescapable. Insurance and OHS will barely let a naked flame appear in public whatever the occasion. With these thoughts in mind, the last Carols by Candlelight of my youth was held in a bush setting and someone dropped a lit candle onto bark strewn ground. The holocaust that could have ensued does not bear imagining.

LED is ugly, but there is, after all, a positive side.

The sound was lousy then, too, so perhaps Mike Raine is the only guy we should any of us trust in these situations.

Best for Christmas, and for Candles by Carol-light (as my father prefers to call it)

Noël Christian

homestead:Theatre of Words

http://www.facebook.com/pages/homestead-Theatre-of-Words/195922452014?ref=ts

http://www.myspace.com/homesteadtheatre

David AshtonThu, 17 Dec 2009, 10:23 pm

The really frustrating

The really frustrating thing about the sound was that it was all top line gear, top end Mackie mixer, Yamaha graphics, Rane compressors Crown amps EV speakers.but with his amps and graphics at full he ran his desk at 20%, barely troubling his vu meters.So his dynamic range was on a par with an a.m. radio, it really is easy to make good gear sound bad. I sent him the link to do it right, we'll see next year. http://www.gain.pe.kr/spboard/board.cgi?id=audio&action=download&gul=14

mike raineFri, 18 Dec 2009, 05:25 am

just plain silly

Yep . . . if your system has too much power for the venue and the nature of the performance, leaving you only a couple of centimetres of fader travel, then it is just plain silly to have the amps set to max. That is not a part of my method!

David AshtonFri, 18 Dec 2009, 02:16 pm

Of course it is part of

Of course it is part of your method, if the amplifier gain is at full you have to run something in your chain at a low level to compensate, this will have a bad signal/noise ratio which will make the system noisier than optimum.You need all the power you can get in any situation, if only to give the transient peaks which add life to your sound. quote, 5 Within the fraternity of sound engineers with whom I'm acquainted, the common practice is to set the power amp levels to maximum, and to control overall level from the mixing desk's master control (which hovers around 0db). All audio peripherals (e.g. graphic EQs, compressors and so on) are set to unity gain (0 db), and are left alone. This is your quote and is plain wrong as demonstrated with all the proof in the link n the previous thread.

mike raineSat, 19 Dec 2009, 04:54 am

selective quoting

In the same post that I mentioned the bit that you quoted, I also said "Only if the channel fader can't give a reasonable working range (i.e. it's too loud when it's nearly at the bottom) would I adjust power amp levels." In a later post in the same thread, I said: "Setting amp levels at lower than maximum is absolutely the right thing to do if you would otherwise blow people's ears out or find you have to work with only a few millimetres of fader travel at the bottom of their paths."

David DuffyTue, 22 Dec 2009, 06:38 pm

Amp levels

Simplified explanation: I usually have the desk running at say -3dB on the meters when the master is at about 70%. Only then can you set the amplifier input attenuator (it's not a gain control) so the speaker output is the loudest you'll want for the job.

David AshtonFri, 25 Dec 2009, 10:35 am

The control on an amplifier

The control on an amplifier may or may not be an input attenuator, frequently it is, but in many amplifiers it is set further into the circuit and is a gain control, so it is possible to overdrive the input stage and get clipping, unless you know for certain that the control is an input attenuator, an external pad is a safer option.

JoeMcTue, 29 Dec 2009, 11:41 am

I now have an LED candle,

I now have an LED candle, well it's an LED 3watt maglite, that my grand daughter gave me for christmas.

So I'm all set for the next CBCL, although I think I will put out hints for at least 2 combo led conversion kits for my birthday. So I can convert my old maglite's - why I don't know?

← Back to Tech Talk