Dates confirmed for Avenue Q

Avenue Q 07-06-2009 to 21-06-2009 Comedy Theatre on sale 17/11/08 http://www.marrinertheatres.com.au/mtPublicAction.do?cmd=whatsOn (scroll down) blah blah 50 words needed to post

I saw this in London last week and it was absolutely hilarious. I loved it all. The songs, the set, the puppets having sex. This musical is a tribute to the people in the 30's who are under achievers.

So short?! This is a truly fabulous, engaging and clever show. It also can't possibly be as expensive as Wicked and the like to put on. So why only a 2 week run? Is this a small pro or pro-am production???!!! This is one of those shows that I think needs to be seen by people- especially those who hate musical theatre- even if you're not converted, at least you can see what is possible with some clever music and words and a little out of the box thinking. Am I wrong, or did this beat Wicked for the Tony that year as best musical?! More please. If you're only doing 2 weeks, come to Perth then. Nev It's the simple things stupid...

Why so short? My info tells me that perhaps the production and organising team is rushed. I heard auditions were almost 'last minute' and not that well planned. Besides, they could easily sell out the show in two weeks in Melbourne, tour to other cities.... but selling for longer might be harder or more of a financial risk. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

It is possible that only the first two weeks go on sale on whatever date was mentioned in order to fill the opening season. This is done a lot in London and then when capacity reaches a pre determined percentage more dates are released. This is a guess only and not insider knowledge. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Prediction - Avenue Q will flop in Australia. We didn't take to Little Shop Of Horrors when it was produced professionally - a small scale, and more commercial show than Q. Probus groups etc... - the backbone of selling a musical will not take group bookings, and many others will say - Avenue Q, never heard of it, not interested.

You may never have heard of it, but I've posted news on my site about it and I get 20-30 hits per day from people looking for news. People want to know if it's going to Sydney, Adelaide, Perth, and Brisbane - people want to know about the auditions for it, and people want to know who's producing it. So you may not care, but some of us do. The season is short, and I highly doubt it will flop. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

NA, you've missed the point. We (industry) people know about it, care and are interested. The general public, largely, is not. Name me one fully professional American off beat musical with an unknown score to be staged in Melbourne's CBD that has been a recent hit? (Two weeks, if that's all it runs, is a flop - show of that size can't make it's money back in 14 days.)

I hate to disagree, but plenty of people outside the industry know about the show. If you think for one second a show that has been touring Singapore, London, Broadway, and elsewhere is 'unknown'.... By the way, they haven't started advertising yet, and most of the general public wouldn't know about a show until it's advertised anyway. I haven't missed your point, I'm just choosing to disagree. As for the two weeks comment: the only info I have about the season is that it's running for two weeks in Melbourne. No one has so far announced that it isn't going elsewhere in Australia. I am choosing also not to speculate on their production schedule or their budget. One would assume that they wouldn't bother touring here if they couldn't afford to do so. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

It's official: Avenue Q is heading to Brisbane: http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermail/arts/index.php/couriermail/comments/avenue_q_the_musical_coming_to_brisbane/ More info is also provided at the end of the article as to the Aussie crew. EDIT: And of course, the rest of the tour http://www.australianstage.com.au/news/melbourne/avenue-q-to-open-in-melbourne-2058.html I think that safely answers WalterP's questions as to whether or not the season will be successful or if anyone cares about the show. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

Name me one fully professional American off beat musical with an unknown score to be staged in Melbourne's CBD that has been a recent hit?

DFT. That's all I have to say. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

DFT???? Anyone can announce tour dates, that doesn't mean the show will be a hit. Look at Altar Boys; was supposed to play interstate after Melbourne and didn't. Melbourne musical theatre audiences are quite conservative. Notice no-one can name such a show that's worked commercially in Melbourne. I don't want Q to flop, I'm just concerned that it will. If it's such a sure bet, why have the major Australian producers - GFO, SEL, David Atkins Enterprises, Jacobsen etc... let the rights to Q be taken up by such a minor player? Q's backers describe themselves in this manner - see the above links.

By the way, you're assuming that the only target audience that will be going to see this show is MT people: what about those interested in puppetry? Henson's Puppet Up sold out when it came, even before the show opened and was picked up by most of the local media. Their season was infinitely shorter. Although puppetry in Australia is underrated and not much cared about by mainstream audiences, they did turn up for Puppet Up, because it's puppetry for adults, intelligent, and fun. I'm not a producer (of large shows anyway) and am not going to comment on the issue of profitability given that I don't know enough about it to either give an intelligent answer or to satisfy your opinions. DFT is an in joke. But in this case it means I don't care anymore in this argument. You seem intent on making a case, that's fine, but I thoroughly don't care what some anonymous person's opinion is of whether or not a show will flop. Go bug someone else. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

"Na" "anonymous person's opinion" You don't state your name either. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? "I thoroughly don't care what some anonymous person's opinion is of whether or not a show will flop." Really? You seem to have spent quite a bit of time arguing about something you don't care about. "you're assuming that the only target audience that will be going to see this show is MT people: what about those interested in puppetry?" Once an audience goes to a musical, whether it involves puppetry or not, it because a musical theatre audience. Professional musicals involving puppetry - Virgins, Little Shop Of Horrors, Spamalot etc... have a decidedly patchy commercial record in these parts. If there's such big, puppetry audience around, why do shows of this sort regularly fail??? "Henson's Puppet Up sold out when it came" This comment shows your self acknowledged - I'm not a producer (of large shows anyway) and am not going to comment on the issue of profitability given that I don't know enough about it ignorance of the producing world. Puppet Up had government money - from more than one country - it was not a purely commercial (private money) production. Plus, it had the backing for the Hensons. Q, in Australia, is being staged by commercial producers who describe themselves as small - their pockets aren't nearly as deep as those of the Hensons. Plus - As any industry insider will tell you, quite a number of the Puppet Up houses at the Princess were papered - free tickets. Think of it this way - If the show was selling out, genuinely selling out in Melbourne, and was such a commercial money spinner, why didn't interstate dates follow? DFT is, I understand, a term, incorporating the "f" word, to dismiss the views of someone else. If that's the level this discussion has reached, no point in my calmly, and in a non abusive manner, debating my point of view. The true test will come next year. Let's hope Q is a success. However, I suspect I'll be coming back to this board, and posting a link to an online story about Q folding early.

Just FYI walterp, na does have her name publicly available, along with her business name and a lot of information about her. Click her name on her posts... I cant wait for Q to open, I went to see it in London a few months ago now, had to buy tickets about 3 weeks in advance because they had sold out! No doubt Melbourne will be the same! Does anyone know if they have finished casting yet? Has the cast been announced?

DFT is not an abusive term. Walterp, you are entitled to voice your opinion about whether Q will flop or not. Your opinion will, of course, not affect ticket sales in the slightest. I am entiltled to not give a toss. www.meltheco.org.au

The only two things I will reply to: My handle here 'Na' is short for Naomi. That has generally been a nickname of mine from family and friends, and I use it here. If you would care to view my profile, you can find my full name, which you can Google and easily find out my background. I do not hide my identity here or elsewhere on the internet. As for DFT, you have misunderstood and misinterpreted. Without giving away the joke (it's not my injoke to explain), the 'f' does NOT represent the word fuck. It is something else entirely. Thank you for the intelligent conversation, but I have other things to do now. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

You make a lot of good points "WalterP". Spamalot lost millions of bucks in Melbourne even with all those Monty Python fans so A.Q.'s chances can't be great. A few other major aussie musical producers who passed on the property - Louise Withers (Miss Siagon) and Dennis Smith (Shout, Dusty).

Here are the dates from http://www.australianstage.com.au/news/melbourne/avenue-q-to-open-in-melbourne-2058.html AVENUE Q TOUR DATES Melbourne from June 2009 Sydney from August 2009 Canberra from October 2009 Perth from November 2009 Adelaide from December 2010 Brisbane from February 2010 Wellington from April 2010 Auckland from May 2010

I believe they have finished casting - although that's more of a guess than anything else - but no news yet about the cast that I've seen. I'm going to take a very conservative guess and say that all of the cast will have worked with the big name puppetry companies (Polyglot, Snuff Puppets, Spare Parts, etc.) and will be well-known within the industry. Particularly because Sue Giles from Polyglot is working on the show, so I don't think we'll see many, if any, unknowns working on it. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

I think you should not be so concerned about profit margins. That's the company's issue. If you're interested, pay for your ticket and enjoy the show. I loved it. I hope the Oz version is just as good.

Profit margins aren't just the compnay's issue mate. What if the show opens poorly, and then doesn't play interstate? The Fully Monty opened to poor revenue in Melbourne and the Sydney season was cancelled, even though tickets for the Sydney showing had been sold. Similar thing with Altar Boys in Melbourne; flopped there, so Brisbane missed out. If a show doesn't work in one city it often is an issue for punters interstate as they try to obtain a refund. I'll still owed money - didn't get a refund for tickets purchased in advance from the professional version of Into The Woods, which was to play at Melbourne's Botanical Gardens in the late 90s, and closed in previews.

Really??? Don't Feed Trolls - calling someone who disagrees with you a "troll" - that's not abusive??? Plus, NA, you're wide of the mark re. casting. Offers have gone out and, as far as I am aware, not one of them to a performer who is primarily a puppet person. Where are Mitchell Butel's puppet credits???

You will find that the majority of cast members for Avenue Q are NOT puppet trained. Once the show is cast, they workshop with the puppets and learn how to use them. There were a couple of original Broadway cast members, who had work for Jim Henson/Sesame Street previously but the rest, and all of the London cast hadn't. It was not a pre-requisite for auditioning, just a plus. Like Starlight Express, you don't have to be able to skate, it's handy, but once cast you do full time skate school. Which I think is great as it gives everyone a chance, rather than just those with the particular skill!

I think the show will probably be really successful, I mean the way I see it the producers are being really smart in how they are laying out the production. The show has a low production cost, much lower than that of the majority of shows these days; thus it is much less of a gamble than Spamalot or some other recent shows, and much easier to tour. By making each leg of the tour a limited engagement the demand and intrigue factor should be higher than other shows as well, seeing most shows these days are trying for open-ended runs. Plus, looking at the ticket pricing on the Melbourne leg of the tour (see Ticketek), with the majority of tickets being under $90 (and the student / concession cheap tickets!!); the show is going to be widely more accessible to the general public than most of the shows that will be out around that time (e.g. Wicked, BE, and Jersey Boys at the end of the run), especially given the current economic situation. I know you can't predict these things, but in my opinion, I think Avenue Q is going to be a hit!

Some good points whatthe?, but can you name one fully professional American off beat musical with an unknown score - unknown to the "person in the street" to be staged in Melbourne's CBD that has been a recent hit? The only one I could think of was Spelling Bee but that was done by the MTC - not a commercial management.

I really question this whatthe? The low production cost, limited engagement approach has been tried and failed in melbourne again and again - I Love You You're Perfect Now Change, Debbie Does Dallas, Altar Boys... Don't forget, the set up cost mighn't be high, but moving a show and paying out of town loadings to the talent doesn't come cheap.

Mitchell Butel? Oh dear. His default setting seems to be over the top campery. This is fine but not 100% of the time. Mitchell, now and then please pull back and let the script do the work.

It might be a fully pro off-beat musical, but it is a Tony winner, an incredible success in both UK and NY, and very very very catchy. Look at the song title list. How is Wicked going with ticket sales? Avenue Q is a better show (waiting to be beaten by the Wicked fans now!) with a far smaller cast and tech/production requirements. If the producers are smart and we see a couple of tv appearances on something like Rove or similar, you will be batting people away. Even without it will still do quite well. There is absolutely no way this musical should fail in these small runs if the venues are the right size and the producers have a clue. The musicals said to fail above, well I can't say they are Tony winners, 'pop' enough, or even flat out good enough. I am fairly knowledgeable in music theatre and know little (nothing) about Alter Boys, so it's unlikely the public will. Into the Woods- has anyone ever made money on this? and I suspect that the producers who passed over the show had several concerns. Don't know that it will make 'big' money in Australia. Not sure anything can to be honest. Also it is incredibly non-pc, therefore risky to producer's reps. However, it is possible you are right and the whole thing will drop in a hole. Hopefully Australians won't get this one wrong. It's the simple things stupid...

Oh Neville, it's clear you are not Melbourne based. What is more, you don't seem to know what you're talking about. 1. Q is folding early on the West End. If you don't believe me, Google it. 2. Into The Woods was a commercial hit on Broadway - ran about two years, turned a profit. 3. Into The Woods was staged in Melbourne (at The Playhouse)after the failed gardens version and was such a hit, it was set to transfer to The Comedy or Her Majesties, but the set (the revolve, actually) didn't fit. 4 Altar Boyz has run more than three and a half years in New York. 5. Altar Boyz won a Best Musical award - The Outer Critics Circle. This fact was used in publicity - a big part of their posters, but the show still flopped in Melbourne. 6. Far from not being "pop enough" Altar Boyz is all about pop - it concerns a pop group! 7. Your average Melbourne theatre goer would not know what the Tony Awards are, let alone who won one. Tony Awards are of more interest to theatre people than the general public. 8. Wicked is a much more commercial show than Q. In New York, it plays The Gershwin Theatre (1,809 seats). Q plays the Golden - seats less than 800 seats. 9. Wicked is selling very strongly in Melbourne. Cast have been told run will be between 14 and 18 months at The Regent. 10. Wicked brings in families, including little kids dressed as witches etc... You've yourself described Q as "...incredibly non-pc..." It won't attract families, or group bookers - senior cits., bowls clubs, etc... Take it from someone who works in this theatre town; Q should have been done at Chapel Off Chapel as a co-op. It will flop at The Comedy.

I don't live in Melbourne and I have no idea how this show will run. I don't know the show well. What intrigues me is why there are people posting on this thread, well, I say people but it might just be one person, who seem to want it to fail and will gloat over it failing. Aren't we all in this business together? Isn't the success of one the success of all of us and the failure of one equally the failure of us all? Be proud and glad that someone is risking their money and their sweat and toil to put the show on. If it succeeds it won't hurt anyone of us. If it fails, well, a failure of any show is sad and will put people out of work. All the best to the Producers who feel confident enough to have a go. I hope the show does well. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

"You've yourself described Q as "...incredibly non-pc..." It won't attract families, or group bookers - senior cits., bowls clubs, etc..." No, but it will attract young theatre goers under the age of 40. Can we move on? You've quite clearly showed you disagree, and I don't think anyone is moving towards the middle. How about we wait until next year, after the show has been on, and then resume the argument? There's no way to win without proof of sales. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

I am willing to admit I don't know everything. Thankfully there are many out there more than willing to remind me when I forget! :-) It is also clear by my profile that I am in fact Perth based. and frankly, Perth and Queensland have the prize for conservatism in this country. However, I still think a show like Q marketed properly and in the right-sized venue would be a success here (even Melbourne). Not a wicked/we will rock you/les mis/phantom kind of success, but a success nonetheless. "1. Q is folding early on the West End. If you don't believe me, Google it." Well, I saw it in the West End almost 2 years ago, when it had already been running for some time. So, maybe not such a bad run...certainly not a 'fold'. "2. Into The Woods was a commercial hit on Broadway - ran about two years, turned a profit." But very rarely anywhere else from what I've heard from many of the people I know who have done it. I don't doubt it's made money somewhere, and frankly deserves it. But anyone knows that Sondheim is not a big seller... Again, especially in Australia. "4 Altar Boyz has run more than three and a half years in New York. 5. Altar Boyz won a Best Musical award - The Outer Critics Circle. This fact was used in publicity - a big part of their posters, but the show still flopped in Melbourne. 6. Far from not being "pop enough" Altar Boyz is all about pop - it concerns a pop group!" and this is still all I know about this show. I'm sure it's great, but obviously didn't click with Aust audiences. Let's face it, not much does. Being about a pop group certainly explains why I've not heard about it. Anyone who knows me knows it would be a hard sell! "7. Your average Melbourne theatre goer would not know what the Tony Awards are, let alone who won one. Tony Awards are of more interest to theatre people than the general public." This would suprise me, but I'm willing to admit no local knowledge. However, there are many people in Perth who know what a Tony is. Even if they don't, my point was more about the fact that they don't give Tony awards to s**t. Therefore perhaps this show is actually half-decent. I think your many points about Wicked merely agree with me- it is and has been an amazing commercial success, and as such plays in an appropriate venue. It also needs to run for a very long time to even begin making money (though I seem to remember that London had made its seed money back on ticket sales before the first show opened). Is the venue Q is going to be in immense? I have to admit I don't know the venue at all. As I stated, if they have the right sized venue, and market this incredibly clever score/script to the right audience, they will be fine. There's no bubble, dragon, flying monkey or anything to pay for. Just a couple of puppets, a small band and small but talented cast and this show is ready to roll. However, I am willing to tip my hat to local knowledge. If indeed you are correct it will be a tragic shame. Saw both Wicked (with Idina) and Avenue Q on consecutive nights in London. Both were fabulous, but Q in my opinion was a better overall package. C'mon Melbourne, don't let me down! :-) Nev It's the simple things stupid...

I think it's important to again stress that this show isn't just a musical. It's a puppetry performance. I know of many puppeteers, both in Melbourne and out of state who don't mind travelling to see a good and well-known puppetry show. I myself, and other people from around the country, have travelled to see Ronnie Burkett - someone who definitely isn't known, even to those people who know about the Tonys (by the way, is the 'average' punter someone who's in the industry or the general public? Because I think the idea that Melbournians don't know what the Tonys are is slightly off). Ronnie gets sell out audiences every time he comes to Australia. He does adult marionette performances (adult as in PG, not as in burlesque or R-rated). Perhaps you would care to read up on the recent Perth puppetry festival, where people came from around the country to participate - I met one girl who came from Hobart (I think... it may have been a different state) just to VOLUNTEER and take part in the activities. Perhaps puppetry isn't as big as MT, but I think discounting the interest by the local puppetry community (and only counting the target market as MT enthusiasts or mainstream theatre-goers) is short sighted. ... But then, I realise this will fall on deaf ears, and no amount of discussion will convince anyone that it will be a success. That's theatre for you, and I'm perfectly happy to wait til next year to apologise if necessary. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

It astounds me that Neville could comment on the likelihood of Q working in Melbourne without knowing which theatre it’s set to play (The Comedy – a 1000 seater – even bigger than it’s Broadway house.) NA, you write – “can we move on”, then contradict yourself by added a further post. Your mention of the highly talented Ronnie Burkett underlines what has been written above. When he played in MELBOURNE, it was part of The Melbourne Festival – subsidised by the Australian tax payer. See – http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts-reviews/ronnie-burketts-10-days-on-earth/2007/02/02/1169919522325.html A state funded season can’t be compared with a private money production like Q. The break even points are not even close. Melbourne theatre goers – MT, puppetry and more do not know about The Tonys. I’m basing this on the research undertaken by The Harry M Millar Group in the lead up to its most recent casting of Hair; circa February 2001. Googling will, I’m sure, tell you more about this event. That found that the top two factors that influenced a punter’s choice to purchase where familiarity with the show, and familiarity with cast. “Tony” brand recognition was under 5%. As someone who works in an agency, I don’t want Q to flop in Melbourne either. But if it does, Logos, Arts Asia Pacific won’t be the only ones feeling the pinch. The above research showed that one of the major factors that influence punters NOT to buy tickets is concern that the show will fold, the that the customer will loose their money. The late 90s in Melbourne was particularly tough in this regard, when three pro. musicals, each of which involved puppetry, went down one after the other – Into The Woods (Botanical Gardens), Jekyll & Hyde (Her Majesties) and Peter Pan (Princess Theatre.) Shows that close early hurt not only their producers, but others.

"Your mention of the highly talented Ronnie Burkett underlines what has been written above. When he played in MELBOURNE, it was part of The Melbourne Festival – subsidised by the Australian tax payer. See – http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts-reviews/ronnie-burketts-10-days-on-earth/2007/02/02/1169919522325.html" In this particular case I was referring to last year's performance which was in Sydney only. You are incorrect. The link you provided was for the SYDNEY ONLY show; Ronnie came to Melbourne in 2002 and 2004 (I believe 2004), but NOT last year to perform (he did come to Melbourne to speak and give a workshop at VCA, but didn't perform). If you're going to use references like that as your proof of argument, and accuse us of not knowing the industry, at least try reading up on the tour schedule. My point was that people are willing to go to another city in order to see good puppetry. You may discount puppetry in Australia but I refuse to. You think VCA might just purchase a whole bunch of tickets to see Avenue Q? Or Swinburne? Both of which have puppetry courses/components? Again, I ask: are we referring to mainstream theatre goers and subscribers, or are we referring to those in the industry and more fringe theatre goers? "NA, you write – “can we move on”, then contradict yourself by added a further post." I was ready to move on, but five seconds later I thought of something else. I wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion, and am allowed to rebut if I think of something new. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

Wrong NA. The link I provided DOES show that when Ronnie performed in Melbourne, is was part of the state subsidised Melbourne Festival. First line, third paragraph.

You missed what I said. The link you provided mentions the Melbourne show, but is about the Sydney one (10 Days on Earth was only shown in Sydney, Tinka's New Dress in Melbourne). In my previous post, I said: "I know of many puppeteers, both in Melbourne and out of state who don't mind travelling to see a good and well-known puppetry show. I myself, and other people from around the country, have travelled to see Ronnie Burkett" In this particular case, I was referring to the Sydney event, for which I travelled to Sydney to see - I also saw Sue Giles there, and present were other people from outside NSW. In terms of the 2002 (Tinka's New Dress) performance, it took place not only during MIAF, but also coincided with the 2002 Puppetry and Animatronics Summit which was held at the VAC. In that particular case, many people from outside VIC attended the summit, and additionally saw Ronnie's show while in town. I was not quibbling over whether or not the show was subsidised; I know full well when the show took place and that Ronnie's shows are even subsidised by Canadian arts councils and organisations. I was merely pointing out that your references were incorrect in associating the two shows for the same thing, and that people from all over the country involved in puppetry will want to see Avenue Q (and this time, not necessarily have to travel for it) based on my previous experiences with good puppetry shows coming from overseas. ... If you have to nitpick. Just out of curiousity, am I still referring to Andrew, or Greg, or is this someone else? And just out of curiousity, can you answer my previous question (asked twice) about your definition of the target audience (mainstream theatre vs. those 'in the know'/industry people)? Since you are intent on having a debate, we might as well have a clear one. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

You've proved my point - puppet shows in Melbourne need to be state subsidised. Q won't be. It's chances are not great. The above research (you couldn't be bothered looking it up yourself???) surveyed people who attended a live, ticketed show in the past 12 months.

I have not proved your point. How do you equate what I am saying with funding? My point has nothing to do with funding, and everything to do with the fact that you are discounting a target audience. Just because one show was subsidised does not mean that they all need to be to be popular or a success. I know of a number of Melbournian puppeteers who have produced successful (small) shows in Melbourne and taken their shows out of state; without funding. Furthermore, Ronnie Burkett is but one example of a puppetry show and is not representative of the puppet industry. He has been funded by Canada governments for something like the past 10 years and is internationally recognised as one of the best marionette performers. Making him the representative of all puppeteers is like saying that all puppet makers are as well known as Jim Henson. I know a great many puppet makers who make a living off their work, but certainly wouldn't be national or international household names. The above research is irrelevant to my point because I am not discussing target audience percentages and who does what; it's relevant to your point, but not necessarily mine. It is beginning to be clear to me that you and I are talking cross purposes and never the twain shall meet. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

Hmmm... Maybe the Melbourne audiences are just jaded with their comparatively huge choice of big musicals, so they can pick and choose... Maybe if a brave producer skipped the Melbourne leg entirely and opened in Sydney or Brisbane, or even Perth, and then went back to Melbourne after it was a success... Hey, if Melbourne IS Australia's Broadway, then I'm sure those of us in Perth would love to become Australia's Boston! :-)

"Ronnie Burkett is but one example of a puppetry show and is not representative of the puppet industry" So why did you bring him up??? Name one puppet show that's played in Melbourne in a 1000 seat theatre and turned a profit WITHOUT government funding.

Sigh... not bothering anymore. You've missed my point more than once and seem intent on nothing but proving yourself right on one thing... I'm not going to why I brought it up, since I already did. Twice. Bye. I'm off to do real work. (By the way, if anyone thinks this site has more than our fair share of arguments, head over to Bad Astronomy Blog and read some of the stuff on UFOs... it makes the past year of silly posts almost seem like cotton candy. And no, Greg, Andrew, whoever you are, just in case you get the wrong idea... again... I'm not referring to you) Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

That's it, we'll just have to rename everything. Do you think Boston or Broadway is copyrighted? ;) Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

Exactly - you can't name one. Given that Q would need to be the first such show, the initial assertion that it's chances in Melbourne are less than great is proved.

You're right. I can't name one. I also don't care. Hooray, you've now proved you're smarter than me and better than me and now I'll go off and cry about it. (insert sarcasm here) You're badgering me about funding and all that, but don't read my words on how I wasn't making that particular point; you were. I say again: you are intent on only hearing about your own POV and arguments. I am happy to have an actual discussion, but when it goes round in circles you have to go do something else. Round head foam puppet pattern at Puppets in Melbourne

Round in circles??? You brought up Ronnie - and it disproved your arguement.