RE: Contraversial Kim - discussion continues
Fri, 2 June 2000, 12:21 pmWalter Plinge6 posts in thread
RE: Contraversial Kim - discussion continues
Fri, 2 June 2000, 12:21 pmFrom: Kim-Renae Silverstone [SMTP:nocturnalgal@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2000 19:54
To: david@tisc.edu.au
Subject: great letter!
hey thanx 4 your email. as 4 my original statement,
isn't that the general view of people outside the
industry? that studying performance isn't legit? my
sister who is a year younger than me is a 'freshman'
at edith cowan studying photography & journalism, &
last year when she told my parents she intended
studying photography, they freaked. studying art isn't
taken seriously because it's such a fickle industry &
so unstable. actually when i wrote that i was on like
4 hrs sleep & didn't know how inflammatory it would
be! well, catchya later.
kim
____________
Thanks for the positive feeback Kim,
I got so caught up in responding that it was about 2 hrs after starting my response that I realised I should get back on with work !!!.
Yes, I think that there are a large number of people who believe and perpetrate the idea that study of drama and the arts is 'less legitimate'. This type of attitude is held by a large number of people who have nothing to do with the arts though, and if you surveyed the response from within the arts community it would be very different.
The world today, and the type of society we have in Australia (and many other 1st world nations), places value on Money/Wealth and success. If you've got lots of stuff to show, then you are successful, you've made it etc. Professions like Law, Med, Accounting, Business etc. are viewed by many people as not being a waste of time because, at the end you can be employed and make money. In the eyes of many people - if you're loaded, you're successful then your study wasn't a waste of time.
On the other hand Â… The same group of, shall we say 'money oriented' people, view the study of photography, theatre, singing and dancing, fine art etc. as a waste of time because there is no high paying job to be had at the end of it. You don't come out with the ability to make heaps of money - therefore it is a waste of time.
People study the arts - knowing full well that there is likely not to be a high paying job (or even any job !!) upon graduation. The motivation of these people is clearly not money and wealth.
There is study for employment/occupations/to get a job and then there is study for learning/personal enrichment. Why do people study Latin or Ancient Greece ? For the knowledge - their aint no money to be made in this field. Your opinion on the matter will depend upon what matters to you
Your parents, judging by their reaction to your sisters choice of course, have the sort of attitude that study is for employment, to get you into a good occupation and set you up for life. I can understand where they are coming from ... when you have kids of your own, you want them to be successful and happy in their lives, and if you have a good profession (with employment prospects) then your half way there. Of course they are going to try and talk (or scream and demand - depending on how well they communicate) your sister into a profession they know at least offers her a chance to find secure employment.
But - clearly your sister knows what interests her Â… My opinion is - what is the point of spending 4 years completing a Business degree and then getting a standard job, if you don't like the work and it doesn't fire your interest in living ?? I say good on her for following something that she enjoys. She may have to wait tables or something etc. but she won't have spent 4 miserable years studying towards a profession that she can't stand, and she be a happier person for it. And anyway, you meet much more interesting people in the arts than you ever would in business (unless you want to meet ambitious people aiming for wealth)
Money/love of wealth turns people mean, selfish and greedy. It is a bad seed in the world (in my opinion) Our whole society, and especially the media, portray success with wealth. I know it is the way the world is Â… but many of the truly happy people are those that have turned away from the desire for wealth and possessions. The fact is that, while many of us aspire to be wealthy, very few of us can ever realistically be independently wealthy. After all, none of it goes with you.
Rich people aren't special for me, in fact (and to generalise as I'm about to is wrong I know) many of them are selfish and self centered, and think that because they are rich, successful, beautiful or whatever, that they are better than the poor ones who (in their opinion) haven't 'made it' yet. But an artist that can portray a scene so convincingly that it reduces me to tears, or sing an aria that give me goose bumps, is worth a hundred wealthy, greedy bastards !!!
What you say about the study of art not being taken seriously because the industry is fickle and unstable, sounds to me like the opinion of those who think that, for a profession to be legitimate, it needs to offer good employment prospects and a secure future. The dramatic arts will never be like this. But, when you consider the arts from outside the 'money driven' view point, they are no less challenging or valuable or legitimate than business, law etc. Its just that our society teaches us, from when we are small children, that wealth is desirable and that with wealth Â…comes success and happiness. But this is often not the case !
One thing I have learnt in my 29 years is that Â… we are all a product of what we are taught as we grow, we absorb our parents attitudes and values, as well as our society's. But it is important to realise that this is not where growth stops Â… once you physically grow up .. you soon realise that your parents attitudes and values were shaped by their parents and their parents before them. Take note of all the things that your parents have taught you Â… but understand that they are not always right. Question things that don't make sense to you and, after thinking and talking about it yourself and hearing what others (with varying opinions) have to say, make up your own mind about it.
Finally Â… (I've done it again - another thesis !!) Despite me putting my viewpoint about shunning wealth and fame forward as if it was shared by a majority of struggling performers in the arts, I have found, and I'm sure you will also, that every performer has a different reason for doing what they do, and as you suggest, many in the arts (successful and struggling) are wise to acknowledge that we do live in a world where pretty people tend to get the breaks. Lots of performers do aspire to wealth, fame and international success - but they will only last in the industry if they are realistic about their changes of achieving this, and they are prepared to struggle until 'the big break' comes. In all cases, they love what they are doing !
OK Â… enough. I hope you don't mind Â… but I'd like to continue this conversation on the Green room gossip web site so others can give their opinions. I'll post your email to me as well as this response. I hope this is OK by you.
Bye for now,
David
Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2000 19:54
To: david@tisc.edu.au
Subject: great letter!
hey thanx 4 your email. as 4 my original statement,
isn't that the general view of people outside the
industry? that studying performance isn't legit? my
sister who is a year younger than me is a 'freshman'
at edith cowan studying photography & journalism, &
last year when she told my parents she intended
studying photography, they freaked. studying art isn't
taken seriously because it's such a fickle industry &
so unstable. actually when i wrote that i was on like
4 hrs sleep & didn't know how inflammatory it would
be! well, catchya later.
kim
____________
Thanks for the positive feeback Kim,
I got so caught up in responding that it was about 2 hrs after starting my response that I realised I should get back on with work !!!.
Yes, I think that there are a large number of people who believe and perpetrate the idea that study of drama and the arts is 'less legitimate'. This type of attitude is held by a large number of people who have nothing to do with the arts though, and if you surveyed the response from within the arts community it would be very different.
The world today, and the type of society we have in Australia (and many other 1st world nations), places value on Money/Wealth and success. If you've got lots of stuff to show, then you are successful, you've made it etc. Professions like Law, Med, Accounting, Business etc. are viewed by many people as not being a waste of time because, at the end you can be employed and make money. In the eyes of many people - if you're loaded, you're successful then your study wasn't a waste of time.
On the other hand Â… The same group of, shall we say 'money oriented' people, view the study of photography, theatre, singing and dancing, fine art etc. as a waste of time because there is no high paying job to be had at the end of it. You don't come out with the ability to make heaps of money - therefore it is a waste of time.
People study the arts - knowing full well that there is likely not to be a high paying job (or even any job !!) upon graduation. The motivation of these people is clearly not money and wealth.
There is study for employment/occupations/to get a job and then there is study for learning/personal enrichment. Why do people study Latin or Ancient Greece ? For the knowledge - their aint no money to be made in this field. Your opinion on the matter will depend upon what matters to you
Your parents, judging by their reaction to your sisters choice of course, have the sort of attitude that study is for employment, to get you into a good occupation and set you up for life. I can understand where they are coming from ... when you have kids of your own, you want them to be successful and happy in their lives, and if you have a good profession (with employment prospects) then your half way there. Of course they are going to try and talk (or scream and demand - depending on how well they communicate) your sister into a profession they know at least offers her a chance to find secure employment.
But - clearly your sister knows what interests her Â… My opinion is - what is the point of spending 4 years completing a Business degree and then getting a standard job, if you don't like the work and it doesn't fire your interest in living ?? I say good on her for following something that she enjoys. She may have to wait tables or something etc. but she won't have spent 4 miserable years studying towards a profession that she can't stand, and she be a happier person for it. And anyway, you meet much more interesting people in the arts than you ever would in business (unless you want to meet ambitious people aiming for wealth)
Money/love of wealth turns people mean, selfish and greedy. It is a bad seed in the world (in my opinion) Our whole society, and especially the media, portray success with wealth. I know it is the way the world is Â… but many of the truly happy people are those that have turned away from the desire for wealth and possessions. The fact is that, while many of us aspire to be wealthy, very few of us can ever realistically be independently wealthy. After all, none of it goes with you.
Rich people aren't special for me, in fact (and to generalise as I'm about to is wrong I know) many of them are selfish and self centered, and think that because they are rich, successful, beautiful or whatever, that they are better than the poor ones who (in their opinion) haven't 'made it' yet. But an artist that can portray a scene so convincingly that it reduces me to tears, or sing an aria that give me goose bumps, is worth a hundred wealthy, greedy bastards !!!
What you say about the study of art not being taken seriously because the industry is fickle and unstable, sounds to me like the opinion of those who think that, for a profession to be legitimate, it needs to offer good employment prospects and a secure future. The dramatic arts will never be like this. But, when you consider the arts from outside the 'money driven' view point, they are no less challenging or valuable or legitimate than business, law etc. Its just that our society teaches us, from when we are small children, that wealth is desirable and that with wealth Â…comes success and happiness. But this is often not the case !
One thing I have learnt in my 29 years is that Â… we are all a product of what we are taught as we grow, we absorb our parents attitudes and values, as well as our society's. But it is important to realise that this is not where growth stops Â… once you physically grow up .. you soon realise that your parents attitudes and values were shaped by their parents and their parents before them. Take note of all the things that your parents have taught you Â… but understand that they are not always right. Question things that don't make sense to you and, after thinking and talking about it yourself and hearing what others (with varying opinions) have to say, make up your own mind about it.
Finally Â… (I've done it again - another thesis !!) Despite me putting my viewpoint about shunning wealth and fame forward as if it was shared by a majority of struggling performers in the arts, I have found, and I'm sure you will also, that every performer has a different reason for doing what they do, and as you suggest, many in the arts (successful and struggling) are wise to acknowledge that we do live in a world where pretty people tend to get the breaks. Lots of performers do aspire to wealth, fame and international success - but they will only last in the industry if they are realistic about their changes of achieving this, and they are prepared to struggle until 'the big break' comes. In all cases, they love what they are doing !
OK Â… enough. I hope you don't mind Â… but I'd like to continue this conversation on the Green room gossip web site so others can give their opinions. I'll post your email to me as well as this response. I hope this is OK by you.
Bye for now,
David
RE: Contraversial Kim - discussion continues
Fri, 2 June 2000, 03:45 pm Dear Little Med Chick,
At the risk of sounding patronising, sweetheart, the bottom line is, be careful who you piss off. This is a one horse town and if you want to get the good gigs, people have to like you, or at least respect your talent.
An example.........
letterman uberfan wrote:
-------------------------------
"... but the smarter kids like Amanda, David Court, Grant Malcolm, Tracey, David Gardette, & the dude who likes Letterman, (& some others) who wrote intelligent emails - kudos. v.informative, interesting.
about the unsavoury emails, could they BE anymore patronizing?"
If you were looking from support from these people, you won't get it if you have just called their friend, girlfriend, pupil, and former partner in production a bitch.
But you didn't know you'd done that, did you?
Always check your facts and never start a fight you can't win. Call us when someone hits you over the head with humility and you'll find open arms, great people and a lot to learn.
LEAH
At the risk of sounding patronising, sweetheart, the bottom line is, be careful who you piss off. This is a one horse town and if you want to get the good gigs, people have to like you, or at least respect your talent.
An example.........
letterman uberfan wrote:
-------------------------------
"... but the smarter kids like Amanda, David Court, Grant Malcolm, Tracey, David Gardette, & the dude who likes Letterman, (& some others) who wrote intelligent emails - kudos. v.informative, interesting.
about the unsavoury emails, could they BE anymore patronizing?"
If you were looking from support from these people, you won't get it if you have just called their friend, girlfriend, pupil, and former partner in production a bitch.
But you didn't know you'd done that, did you?
Always check your facts and never start a fight you can't win. Call us when someone hits you over the head with humility and you'll find open arms, great people and a lot to learn.
LEAH