Why is there so much precasting?

EMAILNOTICES>noDon't deny it doesn't happen. How many times have I seen more than three times the necessary people audition and many people who deserve the part to see one of the director's relatives (wife/husband, daughter/son, brother/sister and so on) get the part, despite the fact their audition was actually inferior. And it's not because they the right "look" either. Why bother auditioning the part if the casting is a foregone conclusion? Is it just for show?

> Don't deny it doesn't happen. How many times have I seen more> than three times the necessary people audition and many people who> deserve the part to see one of the director's relatives (wife/husband,> daughter/son, brother/sister and so on) get the part, despite the> fact their audition was actually inferior. And it's not because they> the right "look" either. Why bother auditioning the part> if the casting is a foregone conclusion? Is it just for show?Sometimes yes.I condone this not, but I reckon it's because directors often dream of particular performers in particular roles, and being the morbidly obsessive creatures that they are, will let nothing stop them from achieving their wishes, lest the world put another chip on their sloping shoulders.Any other brainstorms?

Sometimes precasting to some extent is a necessity. It would be a brave director who was planning to do say "Hamlet" and just hopes that someone talented enough turns up on the day.I like to know that I can cover base, but do not precast as such (with some exceptions). For example, casting Miss Bosnia or Five Women Wearing the Same Dress, I like to know that I have Actor x and y and z showing up, because they are versatile and I can cast them in several parts in that age range if necessary.One director I know recently held auditions, but not for the parts that were precast - because the play was in many respects a sequel, and some actors were reprising roles. Another actor was precast for other reasons, and the part was not on the audition list. A solution of sorts.I have not held auditions for one act plays I have directed in the past few years. The reasons were personal. Last year I was heavily pregnant during the rehearsal period and I wanted the rehearsals to be stress free. Consequently I cast actors that I knew were reliable, would be willing to rehearse in a hospital room if necessary, and who were not prone to hysterics or tantrums. I must also admit that when I read the play, I saw it as a vehicle for these actors.I agree though. It is wrong to audition for a part a director KNOWS is going to an individual. As an actor I have seen it happen and was actually told by a director minutes after an audition, that he had already promised the part to someone else. Annoyed me for wasting my time. (Actually the actress then became pregnant and I got the role any way...but that is another story.)My only advice is to ask when you first enquire about auditions. It might encourage the precasters to "fess up".Kimberley

I am just a fringe dweller - (I snuk in here 'cause no ones in 'Tech Talk' - I wonder if i need a visa now?) - but! heres my two brain cells worth???Sure it happens in possibly every Theatre and Life - You wont get away from it.Although in community theatre, where you are a member and should be afforded all rights and privileges, it should never happen. But it is possibly worse!Put yourself in the place of the Director, you have put your hand up, procured the script, had the mise en scene designed with your team in place - and now for the auditions? Try it yourself it is a big ask and task.You want to do your best and ensure the best of the production, even if you have just lobbed there you will try and glean who can do what or who would be available - you hedge your bets as best you can, because at the end of the day it is yours thats on the line.I never tell anyone they have the part until I am satisfied, after the audition process. However I see and hear this all the time "how about doing such and such and Ill take the lead or play whats a name or who ever".Unfortunately, it is something you have to bear - sure I believe it is dishonest to all members who audition in good faith - But what do you do, wait until the revolution?All I can say is dont give up - you are obviously worth it - So keep going and you will crack it - It is great training anyway and then when it happens you will be pre-cast for ever and ever and..!Joe McCabe> Don't deny it doesn't happen. How many times have I seen more> than three times the necessary people audition and many people who> deserve the part to see one of the director's relatives (wife/husband,> daughter/son, brother/sister and so on) get the part, despite the> fact their audition was actually inferior. And it's not because they> the right "look" either. Why bother auditioning the part> if the casting is a foregone conclusion? Is it just for show?

EMAILNOTICES>noI know someone who tried asking if the director already had anyone in mind when he first rang, as he was told by a third party the part was likely to go the director's relative. He was assured this wasn't the case but felt his inquiry had put a black mark against his name and lo and behold the part when to the relative.Some of the points Kimberley have listed are valid - my argument was more... why bothering getting people to audition if it's a foregone conclusion. It's a waste of time and soul destroying because getting up and audition is hard enough as it is.

At least if your in the City you may have a choice, when the only game in town is run by a family who are the committee and control the purple circle, who are the only ones who can give accreditation before anyone can Direct.There is a Director, who I have worked with, who will only do a show if their friend are available.I have found their style and presentation of product is completely predictable, has no illusion and the only suspension is in their nickers, as it still is a disbelief the show actually happend. So why would anyone worth their space want to be in it.The problem is if you raise an objection, you will be sanctioned in some way, you become public enemy number one - an overnight sensation, but never a success!Theatre is bigger than one Director or a group - let them know why your going somewhere else - if they are worth it? - if not don't bother with them - All things work in cycles......hope one day you can return the favour!I doubt this will help - some one else should jump in, they will have more insight than me!Joe McCabe> I know someone who tried asking if the director already had anyone> in mind when he first rang, as he was told by a third party the part> was likely to go the director's relative. He was assured this wasn't> the case but felt his inquiry had put a black mark against his name> and lo and behold the part when to the relative.> Some of the points Kimberley have listed are valid - my argument> was more... why bothering getting people to audition if it's a foregone> conclusion. It's a waste of time and soul destroying because getting> up and audition is hard enough as it is.>

Dear Phil,This discussion on pre-casting is an interesting one for the potential hornet's nest it could stir up.By this I mean, yes I agree that there is an element of pre-casting in plays done for community theatre. There simply has to be. If there wasn't, good plays would not get a chance. However - I believe, if I am reading you right, that your beef is with *nepotism* more than it is with pre-casting for the 'right' reasons (which have been addressed by others on this thread).Having said this however, this brave director has at times gone in to bat for the side of complete impartiality and, unfortunately, lost. I have, in the past, actually tried to cast based simply on who turns up. A situation which had then to be recitified with at least 4 times the amount of effort. But I have *always* believed in 2 'laws' in casting which have stood me in good stead:1. Use the best actors you have access to.2. Choose the right 'dynamic mix'; in other words, I choose actors which I believe will complement one-another both on and off stage. This is because I am trying to serve the playwright first and foremost (something mostly forgotten by the worst kind of aspiring thespi-hams) and, secondly, because under the time pressures of productions these days, both pro and am, I simply don't have enough time to build ensembles as strong as I would like out of wholly 'unknown quantities'.These are, of course, very personal precepts that I have worked out for myself. But I think there is, at some level, conscious or un-, a desire to 'make plays' the best they can be and pre-casting can be an effective tool in achieving this aim. But it comes at a price; closing your mind to flexibilty in the casting process can rob you of the ability to build a stronger team and a stronger play. But please, don't confuse this with nepotism - a much different subject and a personal loathing of mine.RegardsJason

There are so many mixed thoughts and ideas on this precasting issue, some valid some not so valid, however, Scarp, being still in the young stages of growth and development hope to learn from others wealth of experience on this and many other issues. Although, a theatre company cannot 'control' a director it can at least have a set of guidelines that hopefully they will use. Scarp is implementing an 'Equal Opportunity Statement' as a guideline that will form part of our constitution. Maybe this will help - who knows.

Yes it goes on, and in a few cases, it can be looked at as particularly selfish. But why does it go on?Argument FOR pre-casting;1. Covering parts in case too few turn up to Audition.2. Politics; Director had someone in mind for part but has to go thorough the ropes of Auditioning. This happens in Government Employment circles. Someone is emplyed as they NEED someone urgently, but they HAVE TO ADVERTISE THE POSITION within 18 MONTHS. It's standard policy.3. Simplifies the audition process for the director.4. Some people can't always turn up at the Audition times, but director still feels obliged to try them out.5. Director knows their bound to turn up anyway (they always do - e.g. regular club member)Argument Against;1. People feeling Hard Done by.2. If badly cast, reflects even worse on Director who COULD develop an unsavory reputation.3. Could also refelct badly on the Club supporting the show.4. FAVOURITISM, which is where your particluar Gripe lies (I think) Phil.(Anyone want to add to the list?)You have mentioned a particular example where a relative to the director was cast and (in your opinion) was not the right choice. This COULD be seen as a very malicious thing to do. It could also be quite innocent.Things like this happen, and not just in theatre, people are 'pre-cast' for employment as well (and I don't mean just government positions). As they say, it's not What you know (necessarily) but WHO you know. There's is very little you can do about but but complain and cause a few ripples which will disrupt things for a short while before everything returns to normal.Accept that this happens, dislike that fact that it does but don't dwell on it. I'd like to think that little hurdles like this can only make me (or anyone else) a stonger, more determined person.You're obviously a passionate person, particularly with theatre. Stand by you passion and let that guide you. Don't get distracted by other's "faillings".Still, your complaint is a valid one. Maybe one day, when we can make something more than Ripples, people like us can make a difference. 'Till then, keep smilling and Don't Let the Bastards Get You Down.Jeff.

EMAILNOTICES>noI appreciate your thoughts. Yes, I guess nepotism is the beef but it extends to people who aren't related to the director as well. I understand when and where precasting may be needed, it's just when it's purely been promised to someone because they know the director and it's auditioned anyway. Here's a word of advice for any other directors reading this: if you're hell-bent on putting someone in a certain part, for goodness' sake don't put that part up for audition. Simple, huh?

EMAILNOTICES>noI don't need to cite one example of nepotism, I have seen several over the years. And, dearie me, if we did cite names and examples well I think someone could bring a little thing called defamation if they so desired.

> "Show me a script that calls for no actors, dancers, musicians> or artists; and, I will show you a Tech's DREAM!!!!" - anonSounds like a conference of orthodontists to me...A propos your wheeze, a musician's version.Fingers O'Toole the reknowned double-bassist shuffles off this mortal coil and up to heaven. He is surrounded by all types of people, all creeds, all colours. he notices, however, that St Pete is asking questions of the freshly deads' former lives. His ever-ready ears prick up, and the question is "What was your profession?"Guy 1: I was an osteopath.StPete: OK, straight through.Guy 2: I was an executioner.StPete: OK, straight through.Guy 3: I was the Grand Ferret of my branch of the KKK.StPete: OK, straight through.Fingers is stoked. No worries here; if the Grand Ferret can get in, I'm set.StPete: Ok Mr O'Toole. What was your profession.Fingers: I was a jazz musicin.StPete: OK, you go round the side there, up four flights of stairs, through the kitchen, past the elevator....

You covered most of it jeff.The only thing I would add is - The Club, Venue, Cast & Crew are also subjected to to the reputation list. While the Director is ultimately responsible it is the whole banan-nanah bunch that it reflects on - unfortunetly is largly out of their control and possibly can only be rectified at this Director's next attempt.As for relatives, girlfiends & what ever?--{original credit goes to UNDERHILL@gacvax1.uwaterloo.ca}A famous director, having died of late, arrives at the Pearly Gates.He is greeted by St. Peter, who is delighted to see him.Peter: Great! We were waiting for you! God's producing a show,and we need a director.Director: No, no, no! I am done! I have been directing for thirtyyears and I want to rest. Eternally. Get someone else.Peter: But you don't understand. We have a script by Shakespeare.Dir: Sounds great... I'll see it opening night. I won't do it.Peter: Our set design is a collaborative effort between Leonardoda Vinci and M.C. Escher.Dir: Well, I really do need some time off. Maybe next time.Peter: It's a Bach score! C'mon, you've gotta do it!Dir: You tempt me, Peter...Peter: Here's the clincher. You've got an open budget, a techcrew known for getting stuff in early, and all the auditionmaterial you could dream of.Dir: Okay, okay. I'll do it. Where's the stage manager?Peter: Over there. But first, there is something I have to tellyou. You see, God's got a girlfriend, like, and she sings...So it is not only Community Theatre???????Joe McCabe"Show me a script that calls for no actors, dancers, musicians or artists; and, I will show you a Tech's DREAM!!!!" - anon

> Sounds like a conference of orthodontists to me...touch> StPete: OK, you go round the side there, up four flights of stairs,> through the kitchen, past the elevator....I know the place well - I did a season there once!"Bass!" - Whie Nah! waar hiney! thaa 'ad nee Broon'aal (Newcastle Brown Ale)Joe "Tell yaa aboot thaa 'woaarm'" McCabe

This might help?WHO'S WHO IN THEATREProducer:Leaps Tall Buildings In A Single BoundIs More Powerful Than A steam LocomotiveIs Faster Than A Speeding BulletWalks On WaterGives Policy From GodDirector:Leaps Short Buildings In A Single BoundIs More Powerful Than A Electric TrainIs Just As Fast As A Speeding BulletWalks On Water If The Sea Is Calmspeaks on behalf of GodPlaywright:Leaps Short Buildings With A Running Startbelieves he is Thomas the Tank EngineIs Faster Than A Speeding dummySwims WellIs Occasionally Addressed By GodActor:Makes High Marks On The Wall When Trying To Leap BuildingsIs Run Over By Trolley Buses and all would be Tank EnginesCan sometimes Handle A Prop Gun Without Inflicting InjuryDog Paddles wellTalks And Listens To Trees As Though It Were GODTechnicians:Runs Into BuildingsRecognizes Locomotives Two Out Of Three TimesIs Not Issued AmmunitionCan Stay Afloat With A Life PreserverListens To Inanimate Objects And Talks To WallsElectrician:Ruins buildings with a single switchOnly allowed an electric train setUsually goes up in smokeKnown to aviod waterHearing is colour blind and only listens to the lightChorus:Falls Over Doorsteps When Trying To Enter BuildingsSays, "Look At The Choo-Choo!"Wets Self And Blames The Prop Water PistolCan only play In Mud Puddles wearing floatiesMumbles To SelfStage Manager:Lifts Buildings And Walks Under ThemKicks All Locomotives Off The TrackCatches Speeding Bullets In Teeth And Eats ThemFreezes Water With A Single GlanceIs GOD !!!!!!!!!Joe

> I know the place well - I did a season there once!And only once, right?!? :)> "Bass!" - Whie Nah! waar hiney! thaa 'ad nee Broon'aal> (Newcastle Brown Ale)Newcastle Brown?? A worthy drop, but I'm a Guinness geezer, me'sel'....El (hic!)