Amateur/Professional

Throwing small spanner in works.Theatre is Theatre or is it?Dominie, ie Frenchs 'rules' say that all amateur productions must have the appropriate wording to say so in all paid advertising and programmes.

> Throwing small spanner in works.> Theatre is Theatre or is it?> Dominie, ie Frenchs 'rules' say that all amateur productions> must have the appropriate wording to say so in all paid advertising> and programmes.good piont - norma!JMc

by saying we are "amateur" we pay less for the rights.I guess we could forgo that privelege, but then how many clubs could afford it?So again we are back to "cost of production" not "quality of performance"Kristine "hand a girl a spanner" Lockwood> Throwing small spanner in works.> Theatre is Theatre or is it?> Dominie, ie Frenchs 'rules' say that all amateur productions> must have the appropriate wording to say so in all paid advertising> and programmes.

Hi Kristine> by saying we are "amateur" we pay less for the rights.It ain't necessarily so.I was in the odd situation only a couple of years back of someone else applying for the rights for a show we were doing. They applied for the amateur rights, but strictly speaking the show was "pro". So we had to re-apply for the professional rights. They were cheaper! A flat rate applied for amateur rights, while a percentage of gross box applied for professional rights.Ok, it was probably the exception rather than the rule and it did rely on the fact that we had tiny houses for the show. But it was quite a bit cheaper.So, maybe groups with small venues or considering a show they consider won't be a big crowd-puller should think about applying for professional rights?The question then becomes one of defining professional. From the agents i have dealt with, if anyone involved with the production is paid anything at all, it's considered professional. I wonder if that includes covering someone's costs? I wonder if there aren't a few groups out there applying for amateur rights when they should be paying professional?CheersGrant

> It ain't necessarily so.A good idea for a song?I agree - In nearly every case when I deal with agents, I try to negotiate the licence fee - it works sometimes!.They are responsive and helpfull, if you tell them the whole story - that is if they don't hang up. - so send a letter.I came on the tail end of a production, being performed at a Performing Arts Centre (800 seats), where the club stopped the box office from selling the balcony seats, because they had a licence only for 400 in the stalls - crazy.I tried to inform them that at the end of the day the Agent would not sue them!But they restricted the house and made less sales. If I was the agent, I would have sued them for stupidity. When it all comes to the wash-up they would not mind the extra dollars in the least!.If you have seen advertised "by Public Demand", besides the usual reasons of ensuring they dress the house by restricting it's sales and undoubtbly other reasons. There is also the one of rights, in some contracts they can have a reduced percentage if it is a extended, beyond the original dates, as a re-run season.There are lots of things you can do - try holding the agent to a fixed rate of exchange when your dealing overseas, it's a gamble, but at least you know what your up for. Another one is to negotiate on the capacity of the venue and reduced fee mattinee or they are counted in with night show.Give it a go - good money is always in tune!But what ever you do - ensure you are licenced to do it - because someone will be licenced to do you'Don't try the excuses 'but we are only ....amatuer...charity' - it's no excuse/Joe 'hav a go' McCabe

> Throwing small spanner in works.> Theatre is Theatre or is it?> Dominie, ie Frenchs 'rules' say that all amateur productions> must have the appropriate wording to say so in all paid advertising> and programmes.The question is why?I feel fortunate enough not to have heard of this before.I feel it is a silly rule that only encourages a 'racist' likeattitude in theatre. It's like the mark of the lower class. It'slike putting 'phsy' in front of words to separate the intelligentfrom the stupid.What we do is not lower-class. It is simply unpaid. Why separatebased on payment or lack there-of? I've done a bit of both andI've never felt any different in either (except knowing that I'llbe able to go to the movie that week!)

Think about it: five> women, one dress - you do the maths...Tried ... but I think my digits don't add up .... must be using the wrong formula or a digits missing?Although it would be a good advert grab!It's got me wondering - so I better see for my self!Joe McCabe

>Dominie, ie Frenchs 'rules' say that all amateur productions must have the appropriate wording to say so in all paid advertising and programmes.> The question is why?> I feel fortunate enough not to have heard of this before.> I feel it is a silly rule that only encourages a 'racist' like attitude in theatre.> What we do is not lower-class. It is simply unpaid. Why separate based on payment or lack there-of? I've done a bit of both and>Geez, spend a weekend helping to build a set (for Blak Yak's "Five Women Wearing the Same Dress" - opens this Wednesday!) and I'm behind on all the gossip!The way it was explained to me (and please, someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that there have actually been cases where members of the genetal public (sic - thanks Kristine!) have tried to sue theatres and/or agents after innocently attending a performance only to discover, shock! horror! that it wasn't a professional production! The 'disclaimer', "This is an amateur production," is, in legal jargon, an arse-coverer.By the way, to all the guys out there, don't go thinking that "Five Women Wearing the Same Dress" is 'just another chick play'; there is plenty there for both sexes. Think about it: five women, one dress - you do the maths...

> ... there have actually been cases where members> of the genetal public (sic - thanks Kristine!) have tried to sue theatres> and/or agents after innocently attending a performance only to discover,> shock! horror! that it wasn't a professional production! ...Sounds a bit like America really, the free country where you can sueanyone for just about anything. Well, if that's going to be a problemI guess there is very little that can be done but I'm sure it can allbe hidden in the fine print. They do it on everything else and I'msure there are other, nicer ways to say "our actors are not paid" than"amateurs."While were here, here's a driect quote from The IllustratedEncyclopedic Dictionary (yes, we got it for all the pretty pics)am-a-teur : One who engages in an activity ... for pleasure ratherthan financial benefit; inexperienced, unskillful person.Yes to the first half. I'm sure we can all agree to the first part.How many agree TOTALLY with the second?> By the way, to all the guys out there, don't go thinking that> "Five Women Wearing the Same Dress" is 'just another chick> play'; there is plenty there for both sexes. Think about it: five> women, one dress - you do the maths...You've tweeked my interest.Jeff WatkinsTheatre Enthusiast

"is that there have actually been cases where members of the genetal public (sic - thanks Kristine!)"No I actually meant the dicks in the audience, paticularly the ones who are more concerned as to wether the actors etc. are "waged" and not if they are good at what they do.Kristine "I really have to get a life" Lockwood>> Geez, spend a weekend helping to build a set (for Blak Yak's> "Five Women Wearing the Same Dress" - opens this Wednesday!)> and I'm behind on all the gossip!> The way it was explained to me (and please, someone correct me> if I'm wrong) is that there have actually been cases where members> of the genetal public (sic - thanks Kristine!) have tried to sue theatres> and/or agents after innocently attending a performance only to discover,> shock! horror! that it wasn't a professional production! The 'disclaimer',> "This is an amateur production," is, in legal jargon, an> arse-coverer.> By the way, to all the guys out there, don't go thinking that> "Five Women Wearing the Same Dress" is 'just another chick> play'; there is plenty there for both sexes. Think about it: five> women, one dress - you do the maths...