So where to now?

There has been some discussion on this forum of late that arises out of the current poll. I think that is a highly important subject and one which has to be addressed.

It seems that theatre as a form of entertainment and a means by which people converge together and socialise is slowly dying. It seems that of late theatre has become in the general publics opinion seen as a pretentious artform meant to be experienced only by those that deem they can afford it. It is sad that often the publics general opinion and the truth of the matter are the complete opposites.

There are many reasons for this taking place, a number of which have been discussed in the other thread. I now want to put it to the wider forum community that something has to be done to counter the situation and it won't happen by accident. The question before us is, how? How do we do this? We must all work together ametuers and professionals alike and for awhile, at least, dispose of our ego's to re-inforce the rocky foundations of Australian theatre.

In short:

There's a problem that i deem needs fixing, how do we fix it?

Garreth wrote:
>
> There has been some discussion on this forum of late that
> arises out of the current poll. I think that is a highly
> important subject and one which has to be addressed.
>
> It seems that theatre as a form of entertainment and a means
> by which people converge together and socialise is slowly
> dying. It seems that of late theatre has become in the
> general publics opinion seen as a pretentious artform meant
> to be experienced only by those that deem they can afford it.

I'm sorry but you've done nothing to convince me of this being so aside from some generalisations about 20 somethings not going to the theatre, a death of some forms of theatre(?) and a comparision with theatre tickets and concert tickets.

Also i'm not sure where your general publics perception has come from on theatre being a pretentious artform? How many people went and saw Deckchair theatres Sahkspeare in the park? How many of them go to other theatre and how many of them think theatre is pretentious as theys it there eating food from their eskies enjoying a drink on their picnic rugs?

Its surely counter productive to sit round crying, saying it's dying and what grand plan can we do to save as opposed to going out and being involved and creating theatre? Of course theatre will have to always develop its audiences like all Art forms but it dosen't mean it's dying. Have a look at the big picture from a government funding and policy level down to fringe theatres and communtiy theatres and then make your sweeping statements.

How about the Australian Film Industry? Is that dying too? Well what was the last Australian film made? Sommersault? and what else?

In comparision a few random facts.... Yirra Yaakins Windmill Baby, yet to be produced but touring internationally. I live in a country town that sells out for Bell Shakespeare. Audience numbers were highest ever for Melbourne International Arts Festival. Barkign Geckos Crabbing at High Tide all but sold out for the festival in Perth. Competition for spots at producing venues (like Blue Room, La Mama, Bakehouse, Dalinghurst) at allt ime high.

Random facts that together don't mean anything conclusively but are they the harbingers of the death of theatre in Australia? I don't think so. Is it as good as it could be? No. Just because you havent reached your potential doesn't mean your terminal.

Dave R

I have to agree that theatre is dying...

in the ACT, alot of theatre is based on "not what you know but who you know" I have seen countless people give up yet on the surface we have a thriving industry with australia's highest percentage of theatre goers and new compnaies and opportunties all the time. The problem is young people are being disuaded, one person gets to play five main roles in anyone year instead of giving five different individuals a go. Canberra in mostly amatuer... so small that it deems it-self not worth the bother for too many prefessionals. And a real lack of training is a trouble... our only theatre course died a few months ago.... THANKYOU ACT GOVERNMENT. It is sad, alot of young people havnt seen theatre they dont have the culture ... the opportunities and the exposure to theatre in the same way we do with film. I think theatre needs to come into the 21st century and modernise a bit. But hey its all just a thought.

I don't think theatre is dying. I think a lot of it is the 'appearance' of dying - more fringe companies that don't get any backing or funding from anyone, and only a handful of medium - large size companies. I was listening to a graduate of Swinburne's course the other day, and how she was comparing our theatre scene with Europe's. The difference is that the fringe groups here have no way of becoming larger, as there is little to no government/business support. Over there, companies are able to grow with the help of government/business. That isn't to say that we don't have government/business support, just that we don't have enough.

It is also because they have more schools, 'ensembles' where you can graduate and immediately join an established group of performers, and of course, touring to another country doesn't necessarily mean a sea crossing.

I always think that theatre in Australia is fringe theatre. There are heaps of venues and shows on that nobody ever hears of. That doesn't mean it's dying. It just means that we have a different kind of theatre scene than other places. Art is in the eye of the beholder - we shouldn't be comparing our theatre industry to another.

I think the biggest problem is money. If we could just get a little bit more money (from wherever), then the issue of theatre dying wouldn't be so important. The whole discussion seems to me a symptom of people not having enough funds to do what they want, where they want, when they want. Basically, we all want to feel more supported. Financially and emotionally.

Garreth wrote:
>
> In short:
> There's a problem that i deem needs fixing, how do we fix it?





What's to be done?

Go to the theatre.

Attendances go up, income is earned, profile is raised, product is improved, attendances go up, touring is extended, employment opportunities increase, new audiences are reached, attendances go up...

Go to the theatre.



Oh yes, sorry, that should be...
Stop whingeing about how 'bad' it all is, and go to the theatre.


Cheers,
Craig

[%sig%]

I recall reading in the newspaper a few months back that the ABS had published their statistics on most popular forms of social leisure activity for 2004. I don't remember the exact figures, so if anyone does I'd love to know - but I DO remember that out of the public events/activities that people would partake in, theatre was in the top 5 (as I recall going to the library was pretty high up as well). Now I have no idea what definition of theatre they were using, or how they measured their statistics, but I for one would be interested in looking at audience attendance-numbers for theatre as a whole (including community, touring, professional, student and co-op) before reaching a decision on whether theatre or not theatre is dying.

Well i think part of the problem is its not just twenty somethings it's the younger generation as well. While its all very well to look at current theatre trends what about when my generation is the elder generation do you still believe theatre will be well attended, if we just leave it as it is now?

I go to the theatre often. The problem lies in getting people who normally wouldn't go, to go.

Hello Craig

The 2003 WA attendance figures are at http://www.cultureandarts.wa.gov.au/images/departmentofcultureandthearts/pdfdocs/2003vitalstatsfactsheetsch3.pdf

Regards
Don

Garreth wrote:
>
> I go to the theatre often. The problem lies in getting people
> who normally wouldn't go, to go.



Same answer. Take a friend, or shout them a ticket for a present. Take your kids. Take their friends. Make it as common as going to the movies together. Tell people at work that you went. Talk it up, especially when you see a good show and especially when there are discount previews and especially when you're around people who don't already go to the theatre. If you're producing a show, send out heaps of freebies to groups who wouldn't normally attend, especially early on in your season. Let your politicians know that you are interested in Arts issues involving theatre. Send a few lines to the paper whenever they comment on theatre and you happen to agree, or disagree. Let theatre companies know what you think. If it was good, encourage them. If it was crap, encourage them. Let them know why you think what you think. Feedback and patronage will breed quality and profile, which will widen the circle to include those people you mention.

When general public profile increases, so too does business interest for sponsorship and advertising possibilities. So too does political support and funding opportunities. The STC and MTC have a slight advantage in that they can usually cast names that have a profile from TV appearances (that's why it happens here too), and their theatre therefore appears to be stronger, but that's merely appearance. Quality, unfortunately, is sometimes the last link in the chain to catch up, but it too will increase, starting the circle over again. And since when has quality had a huge effect on television? But it has profile, so it attracts money, and it finds audiences. I'm not saying theatre will tackle and topple the TV industry, but some of the principals are the same.

If you build it, they will come. So build it. Regardless of whether you have any resources, regardless of whether you see immediate results...let people know you are building it and the rest will follow.


I'm not meaning to sound glib, but you actually summarised the issues into a very simple question. And I maintain that at the root of it all is a very simple answer.

All that remains is to see how many are optimists and how many are pessimists. The actions needed to find the solution are totally dependent on the majority's attitude.

Cheers
Craig

Still not convinced that theatre is dying.

All i'm hearing are more generalisations and all i ask is for people to look at the facts (and all of them) before condemning the industry to its doom.

Cant be helping it, if passionate theatre people are saying its dying. As Craig has outlined be a supporter rather than a doom sayer.

( Also, C, no professional theatre in Canberra? Didn't realise Jigsaw Theatre Company had shut down.)

Theatre isn't just about money. If we have many people involved in a large range of activities across the country for little money does that mean its dying or its just uneconomic. Surely its a combination of involvement and attendance.

crgwllms wrote:
> I'm not saying theatre will tackle and
> topple the TV industry, but some of the principals are the
> same.


This is actually true, but what I meant to say was some of the principles are the same as well.


Cheers
Craig

Theatre has been around for thousands of years - if you count tribal rituals etc - the only difference now is that theatre competes with other forms of entertainment. Instead of competing we should be combining art forms - take new media shows, such as Arena Theatre Company's 'Play Dirty'. The show is about motobiking and stunts, and combined both acting, songs, motobike stunts and multimedia presentations.

Maybe it's just the 'traditional' format of theatre that is out the window, and new styles and combinations of theatre is in. Take puppetry in Australia. In Europe, marionettes are the 'traditional' style. In Asia, shadow puppetry and the Japanese bunraku (a style of rod puppets). When I went to Korea recently, I saw nothing but rod puppets (operated from below) and glove puppets. But Australian puppetry uses a combination of all the concepts, employing bunraku, rod puppets, black light, hand puppets, Muppets, etc. Australia is unique because we can create new forms without having a traditional mind set of what theatre is.

The biggest problem in this discussion is deciding what theatre is. Each of us has a different idea - and that is because we are adept at creating our own traditions.

There's no way it's dying out.

I think it was Arthur Miller who said: "Theatre will never die... there will always be people wanting to act..."

Probably the truth of the matter....

Also - produce shows that people will want to come and see. And then promote them, telling them why they would like them. Then they will come.




Especially if there are dwarves in them.

GETTING IT UP - NOBODY SAID IT WOULD BE EASY!

I have been watching this list for years. Several times I've tried to post to it, but to no avail. I do have something to offer and would like to comment. How do I do that<

you can post a new threat by selecting new message when you click on the room you want to go to at the top of the page or else you can simply reply as you have already successfuly done

Quite right there David.
Theatre isn't all about money. being a hedge-investor is all about money......theatre is all about shouting and spittle and not bumping into the furniture. It's all about sharing and making a jackass of yourself and showing off and failing and not,er,failing and big words and daft ideas.....and of course it's not dying.
And it's up to people like your good self to keep it not only alive but veritably kicking so get to it you gangly old stick,you.

will you pay my rent, milo?

if i work in theatre can i get by in this country?

if i am single and on the dole am i living above the poverty line?

did we invade iraq for the sole purpose of extracting WMDs? or east timor to free the people?

today's lesson is brought to you by the number 42 and the letters N and O...

and i still i fight on, ya mancunian!!!

it won't die, but forget making a living out of it unless we all work a wee bit harder than we are at the moment and start telling stories that are relevant to majorities than minorities, raise the standard of a very scrappy australian theatre standard across the board(directors, actors, imagination, et al), cut the costs of theatre tix, start to entertain again in the best sense of the word...

and if you aren't in it to make a living(not a fortune), then you keep having fun and forget about the demise of oz theatre. it won't affect you.

for as long as people are prepared to work for free, or in the case of co-op, make no attempt to raise some cash to pay for cast and crew or, in many cases, raise the production values(ie set, cossies, etc.)above a chair, heshin and smoke machine to help the audience, or try to nurture sponsorship so that the next cast looking for investment don't get told to @!#$ off because of the last lot, then we are knackered and there's no amount of talk can do anything about it!

we are, as a theatrical nation, a bunch of underwhelmers! a joke, really. and it runs across the board from what we write, to artistic vision and concept to acting to directing. what are you all going to do about it? how will you change it? give me answers! i wrack my brain and my heart and it gets me so frustrated. australian theatre in the 21st century? what is it? what do you stand for, if anything?

let's take this underwhelming international reputation we have, align our skills and fire up the place! let's not turn up in other countries or have them come to our festivals looking for good stuff only to find banal underwhelming plays and performances. one best supporting actress award is not enough to let us off the hook, people! we are ridiculed by all who see our work. and now our own audiences embarassingly flick past the theatre guide sections of the paper. and it's not because we aren't as good, but we do not put enough on to prove that perception wrong. but let's work together and get stuff off the ground, whether it is quality from here or over where.

enough talk - let see ya dance!!!

mick, with faith

anon wrote:
>
> you can post a new threat

Considering the flavour of many posts here, that typo seems just about right ;-)

You tell 'em Mick boy. Stick it to the man! Lets show those Capatalist dogs just who is boss!

Money isn't the problem, population and geographics are. We are, what 20 million people on 20 million square miles. I have just spent the last ten years working in the UK. They can afford to tour an adaptation of Wuthering heights through England because the travel distances are short between two audiences. There are over 50 million people in the UK, over 200 million in Germany. I have absolutley no idea how many in France. And they are close together. London and Athens are the same dsitance apart as Perth and Melbourne. Try touring in Aus like you do in Europe and you'll go brokr on travel expenses and per diem payments . Effectively public subsidy is needed to just get to another capital. See above, only 20 million peope. No theatre is not dying but it does need to be sharp and clever. Where is the stream of narrative theatre that used to be so strong, Isn't this was the public want. Well told stories with deep feelings. Public money doesn't seem to go that way.