New Poll - Aussie Theatre (New Works)

New poll topic: Is Australian theatre dying?...How do you feel about producing more Australian work?



Adapted from a reader suggestion. Two items I left off the bottom of the options list, but reproduce here for his benefit...

If someone like Jeremy Constable was going to open a theatre company in Ballarat in 2006 then I would contact him on Jez_Tazdevil_13@hotmail.com and have words that are good, with him.

This is not an advertising poll Jeremy, please refrain from such attempts to make yourself known, even if you do graduate a bachelor of arts next year and exist for comic relief.

The Poll-tergeist

[%sig%]

There really was no item on this poll to cover my position...

It is 'relatively' easy to get a new Australian play produced.
It is almost impossible to get that play produced a second time.

Unless we develop a culture of re producing good Oz shows, then it doesn't matter if we are producing new shows or not, because all they will do is disappear forever once they are done.

Paul Treasure

Interesting

13 people, at this point of time, believe Theatre is dying.

In the words of one of the more dramatic Australian personalties...Please explain?

According to the Bureau of Stats, patronage of theatres has increased 2%, not earth shattering but still an increase. (Sorry haven't got the details in front of me state by state but hardly the last death shudder of an industry?)

Theatre subscriptions are staying ,at the very least, stable and in many areas growing. One also has to muse in how an aging population will affect theatre attendance also.

Curious to hear why people say its dying?

I think that alot depends on how you classify what theatre is. Certainly i think some forms of theatre are dying and others are growing as has always been the case throughout history. It seems to me that here, in perth, non-musical theatre is unfortunately dying a slow death. Though to contradict my last statement this year there seems to be an above average amount of plays on at the PIAF. Though we have to look at the audiences attending these plays, very few are members of my generation (the Y generation) and very few are from the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum. I believe that theatre is a fundementally important human experience and as such a greater theatre culture should be encouraged to grow amongst the members of my generation and the generations which come after. Unfortunately it will not because theatre has come to have the stigma attatched to it that it is a highbrow event reserved for the upper class, this due to in no small way to the cost of tickets. $70 or $80 for a ticket to a play is well out of the budget for many people.

Then you have to look at the treatment of theatre in our schools, i know throughout my highschool life whenever shakespeare was done in class it was always badly taught and left a bitter taste in every students mouth. English teachers love to expound the fact that theatre is written to be "seen and not read", but due to a number of factors many students are not exposed to the play they are studying in performance, lest it be a video which still is a poor second to a live performance. As the older generation gradually comes into retirement they will find more time for theatre and so for awhile at least it will continue to flourish. Unless something is done however to instill a theatre going culture in Australia by the time i get to retire it is possible that live performance will exist only in the form of the large scale musical production and plays reserved as a study of a dead art form and occasionally revived for small venues by abid practitioners like myself.

This is a very watered down version of a lengthy arguement and one which deserves to be looked at seriously, however i will be interested to hear the opinion of other people of the forum and maybe how they best think to remedy the situation.

One last thing, i would be skeptical of taking the polling on this site as a serious reflection of the community at large, because rightly the people who vote are biased. If it were to be taken to the wider community i wonder how much the figures would change.

Critics and press departments insist that everything is lovely in the garden : but those prize winning blooms are cut flowers. the beds are empty, the bulbs rotting, the soil no longer nourishes. The blooms will soon go off, and there will be nothing with which to replace them.

The Australian Theatre's glories, so sauvely vaunted by statisticians and ministers and tourism boards are built on threefold foundation : training, experience, tradition. Each of these is rapidly being eroded. Without each one the theatre will, in every important sense, die.

nuff said. excuse the plant analogy.

mick, a dave ryding fan x

mick suavely wrote:
>
> Critics and press departments insist that everything is
> lovely in the garden : but those prize winning blooms are cut
> flowers. the beds are empty, the bulbs rotting, the soil no
> longer nourishes. The blooms will soon go off, and there will
> be nothing with which to replace them.

Really? Last I heard, the critics and the press (The West Australian) were the ones saying that theatre was dying....an attitude that I feel is fundamentally wrong because it tends to bring about the very appearances it speaks of. The more Ron Banks writes that the theatre is dead, the more people are going to get out a DVD instead. Yet if he proclaimed it was thriving, there's a good chance more people would check it out...and hey presto, it's suddenly thriving! And yet theatre continues as it always has, regardless of these 'observations', and oblivious to them.


Continuing your plant analogy, theatre is a mutating weed that springs up tenaciously in the most inhospitable environment regardless of whether you care for it or feed it, regardless of whether you think it's pretty or important or not, or whether you try to uproot it, transplant it, or stamp it out.

It mutates to absorb the resources around its local environment...it can adapt to utilise the most advanced and stunning technology...it can feed off its own parents, it's own history...it reflects and comments upon its surrounding social structure...it infiltrates rapidly around the world...and yet it relies on none of that, needing only someone to observe it in action for it to exist.

It may lie dormant, temporarily unobserved, waiting for the right conditions of light and atmosphere...but it continues to live and breathe. Occasionally it flowers and spreads its seeds in a wide arc, affecting the senses of those who come in contact with it. Other times it seems to hibernate, seen only in specialised glasshouses or reserves. But just because you can't see any flowers, doesn't mean there aren't living roots.

Most other forms of entertainment are becoming more and more synthetic, and can be stored safely on the mantlepiece gathering dust. Theatre grows, blossoms, wilts, dies, regenerates, grows and blossoms again; and will always be - alive.

Cheers
Craig

Garreth wrote:
>
> we have
> to look at the audiences attending these plays, very few are
> members of my generation (the Y generation) and very few are
> from the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum. I believe
> that theatre is a fundementally important human experience
> and as such a greater theatre culture should be encouraged to
> grow amongst the members of my generation and the generations
> which come after. Unfortunately it will not because theatre
> has come to have the stigma attatched to it that it is a
> highbrow event reserved for the upper class, this due to in
> no small way to the cost of tickets. $70 or $80 for a ticket
> to a play is well out of the budget for many people.


Which plays, though, have been in that price bracket? If you're talking about the big Burswood numbers like 'We Will Rock You' and 'Mamma Mia', surely they're a different event...more like a rock concert. And I've noticed that most live concerts with big name stars are up around the $80-100 mark and have no shortage of 'Y generation' punters paying for tickets. Price isn't a hindrance there.

In fact, I've generally been disappointed by the artistic merit of most of the high-priced musicals. High-price doesn't equate to high-brow in my recent experience.


Well and truly the best theatre I've seen over the past few years has all been at the cheapest prices - under $25, and usually around $15 - in venues which have certainly not attracted a 'highbrow, upper class' patronage...the Blue Room, the Rechabites, various pub venues...


What you say about the way theatre is taught in many schools is unfortunately true in some cases...but there are many teachers who are exceptional exceptions. And this is the case in every area of learning, not just English classes, so I wouldn't be blaming your English teachers...any more than I'd be relying on them.

You're quite right, though, that if young people aren't exposed to theatre as an entertainment option, they are less likely to see it as an option when they're older. And a disappointing experience could ruin them for life...if you're going to subject highschool kids to Shakespeare, make sure you've prepared them well, that they understand it, and that the production is done really well...otherwise, you're better off taking them to a Ben Elton comedy.



> One last thing, i would be skeptical of taking the polling on
> this site as a serious reflection of the community at large,
> because rightly the people who vote are biased. If it were to
> be taken to the wider community i wonder how much the figures
> would change.

Quite right! The polls are an entertainment, nothing more. It has nothing to do with the community at large, because the only people who read the poll are visitors to this site, who have already declared an interest in theatre. Even then there's no indication that more than a handful of the community here pay any attention to them. And who's to say all the voting isn't done by the same three people, playing games with our minds?

As inaccurate as they are, they're useful as a rough gauge of opinion, and a good conversation starter for more detailed discussion in threads like this.


Cheers,
Craig

[%sig%]

My apologies perhaps i was exaggerating on the account of ticket prices. However, the fact that there is no shortage of Gen Y'ers going to concerts which DO regularly cost in the vicinity of 80 or 90 bucks, is a good reflection on what they deem more important. It's a constant whine at uni amongst friends of mine over the cost of theatre tickets, most of the time costing about $25, perhaps it's a reflection of their commitment to the artform.

I think perhaps you also misunderstood me on the account of highbrow patronage, I'm not saying that that's necessarily the truth, i'm saying that it is a stigma which has attatched itself to theatre and one which i feel alienates the wider community from attending plays.

Also i don't deny that there are many teachers who are exceptional practitioners of both theatre and teaching, indeed i have been lucky to be taught by a few and been placed on prac with others. I also assure you though that for every exceptional teacher there are just as many bad ones and i have also been unlucky enough to be taught by some of these teachers and i see young men and women who are heading down this road every day at university. Simply, they don't have a passion for teaching or for what they are teaching and this negativity rubs off upon students. Whether teachers like it or not they are role models for their students and dominant influences over what opinions they form and will carry for the rest of their lives. I urge all who are reading this and contemplating becoming a teacher, examine yourselves and be sure you are entering the profession for the right reasons, don't do it merely because you can't think of anything else to do!

Garreth wrote:
>
> My apologies perhaps i was exaggerating on the account of
> ticket prices. However, the fact that there is no shortage of
> Gen Y'ers going to concerts which DO regularly cost in the
> vicinity of 80 or 90 bucks, is a good reflection on what they
> deem more important. It's a constant whine at uni amongst
> friends of mine over the cost of theatre tickets, most of the
> time costing about $25, perhaps it's a reflection of their
> commitment to the artform.

And perhaps our biggest competition is cheap DVDs and cinema tickets...Hoyts yesterday dropped their cinema tickets to $5 on Tuesdays, other cinemas following suit...


> I think perhaps you also misunderstood me on the account of
> highbrow patronage, I'm not saying that that's necessarily
> the truth, i'm saying that it is a stigma which has attatched
> itself to theatre and one which i feel alienates the wider
> community from attending plays.

No, it's probably more the truth than we've guessed. It was not so long ago my parents invited some friends of theirs to come and see a play I was in, and they turned up in evening dress and dinner suit...mortified that everyone else was in jeans and t-shirts! Their perception of 'the Theatre' was what they had seen on TV of opening night red-carpet galas at the Opera House; they never thought of going to the theatre as an entertainment option because they were intimidated by the thought of having to dress up and behave amongst Royalty..!

I was really just saying that people who think theatre is highbrow don't realise that there are lower priced, non-pretentious options....and also that the higher-priced options often aren't anything to be pretentious about!


> Also i don't deny that there are many teachers who are
> exceptional practitioners of both theatre and teaching,
> indeed i have been lucky to be taught by a few and been
> placed on prac with others. I also assure you though that for
> every exceptional teacher there are just as many bad ones and
> i have also been unlucky enough to be taught by some of these
> teachers and i see young men and women who are heading down
> this road every day at university.


Having performed in at least one school-touring production every year for the past 17 years, and at other times facilitating outdoor activities for school camps, it's an understatement to say I've come across a LOT more teachers than most people have. Some kids don't realise how blessed they are. And the others....be afraid, be VERY afraid!


Cheers,
Craig

craig,

the kinda thing,what i'm talking about, is the constant affirmation of the theatre communities that somehow they will find a way to keep going. and this is kept alive by the press not educating their local communities of the dire straits most find themselves in. as humans, we have this notion that we will keep on going, forever. sometimes things come to a close, e.g. the romanov family, the dodo, my last show. sometimes you have to fight to save a species and i believe that the time has come in australia. we are at the edge of a very long drop into an abyss and we won't know we've gone over until we look back up as the world drifts further and further from view. i don't want to rely on the chance that someone stores my acting DNA for future generations. you only live once and that better count for something otherwise yer fucked, well and trully. the danger is to be fooled that the end of the world is not nigh. my friend, we are in every sense, fucken biblical at this present time. to paraphrase "the usual suspects" - the greatest thing the devil ever did was make the world think he didn't exist."

don't believe me?

if the liberal party wins the election, colin barnett is the arts minister.

for me, it's reminiscent the way the string quartet on the titanic kept playing as the liner plunged to the bottom. or joey jeremiah thought that somehow stephanie would get off with him eventually! it's time to find a lifeboat, kick the kids out and get rowing. it's time to lose that stupid hat, get a haircut and ask one of the twins to prom instead! hell, even spike will do!

melodramatastic, i will admit. long day. but know that the time to act is now people. what will you say when your kids ask,"what did you do in the war daddy?" at the moment i would suspect, not much.

mick messiah

mick wrote:
>
> craig,
>
> the kinda thing,what i'm talking about, is the constant
> affirmation of the theatre communities that somehow they will
> find a way to keep going. and this is kept alive by the press
> not educating their local communities of the dire straits
> most find themselves in. as humans, we have this notion that
> we will keep on going, forever. sometimes things come to a
> close, e.g. the romanov family, the dodo, my last show.
> sometimes you have to fight to save a species and i believe
> that the time has come in australia. we are at the edge of a
> very long drop into an abyss and we won't know we've gone
> over until we look back up as the world drifts further and
> further from view. i don't want to rely on the chance that
> someone stores my acting DNA for future generations. you only
> live once and that better count for something otherwise yer
> fucked, well and trully. the danger is to be fooled that the
> end of the world is not nigh. my friend, we are in every
> sense, fucken biblical at this present time. to paraphrase
> "the usual suspects" - the greatest thing the devil ever did
> was make the world think he didn't exist."
>
> don't believe me?


Uh...no, ....I don't UNDERSTAND you.


...Theatre companies are affirming that they'll somehow keep going,
and the press is keeping it alive by not telling us we're on the brink of death,
and as humans we believe we'll keep going,
but sometimes things come to a close,
but the time has come to fight to stop things coming to a close,
and then we're at the edge of dropping off the world,
and then you go into a weird '2001 Space Odyssey' type trip,
and then you say don't be fooled into thinking we're not dying,
and then you get quasi-religious on me...

And then you segue straight into Colin Barnett.


I DON'T MAKE ANY SENSE OF A SINGLE THING YOU JUST SAID. Sorry.




> if the liberal party wins the election, colin barnett is the
> arts minister.

..Right. Since when has ANY Arts Minister really made a huge amount of difference to the theatre scene? Really. In the long term, nothing changes, and everything stays the same. Therefore there is no indication anything will die (or get better, by the same argument.) Deal with it.


> for me, it's reminiscent the way the string quartet on the
> titanic kept playing as the liner plunged to the bottom. or
> joey jeremiah thought that somehow stephanie would get off
> with him eventually! it's time to find a lifeboat, kick the
> kids out and get rowing. it's time to lose that stupid hat,
> get a haircut and ask one of the twins to prom instead! hell,
> even spike will do!
>
> melodramatastic, i will admit. long day. but know that the
> time to act is now people. what will you say when your kids
> ask,"what did you do in the war daddy?" at the moment i would
> suspect, not much.
>
> mick messiah


Once again, it sounds like you're tripping on the acid Hunter S. Thompson left behind. Or is this the onset of early senile dementia?


Cheers
Craig

I like wearing this stupid hat, because if you've noticed, I don't NEED a haircut!

This whole thing does remind me in some ways of the beaureucratic (or however the hell you spell it) farce that takes place in Monty Python's Life of Brian, where the people front of judia decide to actually do something! And then resolve to start a completely new motion.

Some of what you say goes drifting somewhere over my head, i think. However some of what you do say, i happen to agree with. If theatre in W.A. wishes to live some form of meaningful existence there is a need to fight for it lest we watch it go down the gurgler, as with anything in life you can't just leave things be and hope that it will continue to grow on its own, it needs nourishing.

Who however will lead this cultural revoltion? you? me? someone else? I doubt it. I've had many ideas about trying to bring back the theatre as a means of mainstream entertainment and social interaction. Sadly, none of this got beyond the stages of my mind, because of things like insurance and public liability and also the massive amount of bullshit that is required to obtain a grant. Also one needs to look at taking on the project without want of profit, while thats fine for me, an unknown even in Perth, Who out there would lend their clout to such a project? Unfortunately very few people do anything unless there is something in it for them. I know i am being cynical, but am i wrong? I hope i am.

CraigÂ’s sentiments about the past parade of arts ministers not really making a difference is probably quite right, although I for one, have always thought Sheila McHale an excellent, honourable and genuine supporter of the arts. However it would do no harm to have an arts minister who is also premier. And it must be said, that he has already outlined a vision for a new performing arts centre.
Cheers
Greg Ross

I'd have to back Greg up and say Sheila McHale has been one of the most switched on, informed and genuinely effective Ministers in the Gallop Government. I have always found that she really does now what she is talking about, the same can not be said for some previous Arts Ministers.

Greg Ross wrote:
>
> CraigÂ’s sentiments about the past parade of arts ministers
> not really making a difference is probably quite right,
> although I for one, have always thought Sheila McHale an
> excellent, honourable and genuine supporter of the arts.
> However it would do no harm to have an arts minister who is
> also premier. And it must be said, that he has already
> outlined a vision for a new performing arts centre.
> Cheers
> Greg Ross


You're right, Greg, Sheila McHale has been visible and attentive at Arts events around Perth...and I think she has a lot more cred than her predecessor Peter Foss, who left the office hated by the arts industry. But my point remains...what's different in the theatre industry now compared to ten or so years ago?

If you want my opinion (and let's face it, when have I hesitated to give it regardless of the demand), an Arts Minister who is also Premier will actually mean a highly distracted Arts Minister.


And it must also be said, I think that's a typo in your final sentence. You said 'he' not 'she'. Did you mean to refer to Colin Barnett as outlining the vision for the new performing arts centre??? Because no, it has definitely been the CURRENT arts minister, Hon. McHale, who has been overseeing this project over the past three years...but even then, the VISION was outlined by people in the industry (myself included) and has taken a bloody good amount of headbanging to get something even approximating (but we're still not certain we'll actually get it) the way the industry wants it.


I think it was perhaps telling at yesterday's Arts Voice meeting that Colin Barnett was too busy to even attend to answer to the industry, sending Barbara Scott instead, who was reportedly vague. And warning lights started flashing when Sheila McHale spoke about the plans for the new Theatre Complex including other functions rather than theatre (exhibition centre, museum, ...); it sounds like the government wants a building to be all things to everyone (good fence-sitting policy) when the whole point of the ENDLESS negotiations from the industry's standpoint has been that Perth unlike other capitols has NO purpose-built building for theatre.


I'm trying so hard not to be a cynic, but the politicians are so good at helping me to be...

Cheers,
Craig

Has Australian theatre died? ...are you interested in producing more Aussie material?

301 participants in 6 weeks.



Not enough NEW Aussie work is being produced. 104 votes 34%

Forget Aussie theatre for the moment! The problem is: ALL theatre is on the verge of dying! 84 votes 27%

Aussie theatre is dead, and might not ever be resurrected. 45 votes 14%

Existing Aussie works arenÂ’t produced enough. 23 votes 7%

Aussie theatre is just not as popular as other theatre. 16 votes 5%

Aussie theatre is more alive than it ever was. 11 votes 3%

Aussie theatre is fine where itÂ’s at, stop worrying. 11 votes 3%

If Aussie theatre is around, itÂ’s on its last legs. 7 votes 2%




Controversial issue, this one. An alarming number of practitioners who seem to have no faith in resuscitation. The first ingredient in a self-fulfilling prophecy..?


The Poll-tergeist

I haven't really got an idea whats happening in the Theatre industry and made a quick uninformed response ?Votes ?%