Actors Biogs
Thu, 24 July 2003, 01:05 pmGreg Ross36 posts in thread
Actors Biogs
Thu, 24 July 2003, 01:05 pmIn light of boulevards of broken dreams and worthless receipts, is it feasible or warranted for this site to provide an area where actors can post a jpeg photo and a three line biog, with contact details?
Greg RossThu, 24 July 2003, 01:05 pm
In light of boulevards of broken dreams and worthless receipts, is it feasible or warranted for this site to provide an area where actors can post a jpeg photo and a three line biog, with contact details?
Walter PlingeFri, 25 July 2003, 11:21 am
Re: Actors Biogs
I think that's a marvellous idea, if it's practically feasable that is.
G.
G.
LabrugFri, 25 July 2003, 11:49 am
Re: Actors Biogs
Do it Grant. Do it. :-D
Sounds like a fantastic idea. Maybe a poll could be done up to check general opinion......
Hang on.......
Jeff.
[%sig%]
Sounds like a fantastic idea. Maybe a poll could be done up to check general opinion......
Hang on.......
Jeff.
[%sig%]
crgwllmsSat, 26 July 2003, 01:54 am
Re: Actors Biogs
Greg Ross wrote:
>
> In light of boulevards of broken dreams and worthless
> receipts, is it feasible or warranted for this site to
> provide an area where actors can post a jpeg photo and a
> three line biog, with contact details?
In light of the space to be allocated, code to be written, time involved, and thought put into arranging it so it's actually useful for a reader to access....would these actors be prepared to become members of the ITA and pay a subscription...?
[%sig%]
>
> In light of boulevards of broken dreams and worthless
> receipts, is it feasible or warranted for this site to
> provide an area where actors can post a jpeg photo and a
> three line biog, with contact details?
In light of the space to be allocated, code to be written, time involved, and thought put into arranging it so it's actually useful for a reader to access....would these actors be prepared to become members of the ITA and pay a subscription...?
[%sig%]
Walter PlingeSat, 26 July 2003, 09:46 am
Re: Actors Biogs
We have discussed this at length within the ITA committee. This was an idea that we were hoping to implement when the site was first developed some years ago.
However there are several obstacles that we have been unable to overcome as yet.
The first problem is administrative, as pointed out by Craig.
The second problem and probably the biggest worry, is a security reason. You need to be able to contact the actors. We are yet to solve the problem of how a genuine director can find
"Sarah (19) South of River Perth. Dancer, Actor Singer. Experience: King and I (Marloo), Sound of Music (Marloo), Trouble With Angels (MLC), A Chorus Line (Old Mill)"
whose photo shows a gorgeous brunette...without every pervert in Perth being able to find her too. Even if she uses an email address, her email might be flooded with unwanted attention. How often does Sarah check her hotmail address anyway ? We need to put identifiers...How do we do this safely ?
The only way that I can think of, is that all contact details be held at a Central Registry. The ITA is the obvious choice, but we have trouble staffing the office as it is, without adding a potentially huge workload on our overworked volunteers.
Given that there is an obvious interest, we can certainly look at it again. Looking at it with fresh eyes, I've had a few ideas...
If you can think of solutions to these issues, we'd love to hear them.
Kimberley Shaw
ITA Vice President
Obviously, these are my views and not necessarily representative of a decision by the ITA Committee.
However there are several obstacles that we have been unable to overcome as yet.
The first problem is administrative, as pointed out by Craig.
The second problem and probably the biggest worry, is a security reason. You need to be able to contact the actors. We are yet to solve the problem of how a genuine director can find
"Sarah (19) South of River Perth. Dancer, Actor Singer. Experience: King and I (Marloo), Sound of Music (Marloo), Trouble With Angels (MLC), A Chorus Line (Old Mill)"
whose photo shows a gorgeous brunette...without every pervert in Perth being able to find her too. Even if she uses an email address, her email might be flooded with unwanted attention. How often does Sarah check her hotmail address anyway ? We need to put identifiers...How do we do this safely ?
The only way that I can think of, is that all contact details be held at a Central Registry. The ITA is the obvious choice, but we have trouble staffing the office as it is, without adding a potentially huge workload on our overworked volunteers.
Given that there is an obvious interest, we can certainly look at it again. Looking at it with fresh eyes, I've had a few ideas...
If you can think of solutions to these issues, we'd love to hear them.
Kimberley Shaw
ITA Vice President
Obviously, these are my views and not necessarily representative of a decision by the ITA Committee.
Greg RossSat, 26 July 2003, 11:52 am
Re: Actors Biogs
There is obvious enthusiasm and need for an Actors Biog service.
Given the valid points made by both Craig and Kimberley.
My suggestions would be that:
1. A fee, say $10.00? should be paid for the service
2. It should be a secure page, accessible to members only, by password - perhaps the retyping of their current password. This would alleviate personal security concerns.
3. Individual details could only be changed by the actor concerned, using a password issued to them.
There is much to be said for leaving out phone numbers and utilising e-mail addresses, however it's very much a personal choice and if anyone leaves an e-mail address posted that's no longer valid, well, so is their attitude.
My technical knowledge of programming is neanderthal, consequently I don't know what sort of work is required to maintain and accept each biog. If it's expensive, then it may be a situation where the ITA committee could approach the State government via Sheila McHale's ministry, on the basis that it's a much needed service to the arts community and would help prevent people being caught in dubious agent schemes.
Cheers
Greg Ross
Given the valid points made by both Craig and Kimberley.
My suggestions would be that:
1. A fee, say $10.00? should be paid for the service
2. It should be a secure page, accessible to members only, by password - perhaps the retyping of their current password. This would alleviate personal security concerns.
3. Individual details could only be changed by the actor concerned, using a password issued to them.
There is much to be said for leaving out phone numbers and utilising e-mail addresses, however it's very much a personal choice and if anyone leaves an e-mail address posted that's no longer valid, well, so is their attitude.
My technical knowledge of programming is neanderthal, consequently I don't know what sort of work is required to maintain and accept each biog. If it's expensive, then it may be a situation where the ITA committee could approach the State government via Sheila McHale's ministry, on the basis that it's a much needed service to the arts community and would help prevent people being caught in dubious agent schemes.
Cheers
Greg Ross
crgwllmsSat, 26 July 2003, 05:51 pm
New Poll - Actors Biogs
Seeing as this has been prompted by a current discussion, a new poll is in place (I assume suggested by Jeff?).
The Poll-tergeist
[%sig%]
The Poll-tergeist
[%sig%]
crgwllmsSun, 27 July 2003, 01:06 am
Re: Actors Biogs
Greg Ross wrote:
>
> There is obvious enthusiasm and need for an Actors Biog service.
So potentially, this proposed database is likely to be HUGE....which could be problematic. Professional directories like Showcast have hundreds and hundreds of entries, even though they're limited by charging a high fee. You can't include a lot of info, so it's mainly your professional headshot. Who looks at them? Professional casting directors for film and TV, mainly. Theatre companies still tend to prefer auditions to find talent.
A directory for community theatre actors is probably not going to attract those viewers...so who's going to look at it? It's not going to be particularly helpful unless it's organised into separate States/regions, and then into age/sex categories. (There's the problem with asking for State funding...this is a nationally accessed website.) And then it's use will be limited to the quality of photo and information it can provide.
There needs to be a balance between keeping it small (nobody wants to wade through pages of info on every actor) and making it useful (you need to know information about skills, vitalstatistics, experience, etc, otherwise what are you gaining by searching?). If the website were organised into thumbnail pages which then opened into more detailed pages; and you were also able to search by category, then it could be quite useful..if the information was kept up to date. It would also be massive.
Knowing from experience with professional agents, they find it hard enough to keep accurate records of the performers on their books, which may only number a hundred or so. At least they know when to delete someone who may no longer be in town...are we going to trust that sort of updating to the individuals? You don't want to sift through the talent pool not knowing whether the information is still valid and not certain whether the performer still resides in your area.
And you're only going to keep it updated if you believe the service is doing you some good - if you're getting results that you would not be getting from the other avenues you normally pursue to get noticed.
Yes, there is obvious support and enthusiasm from the actors - we all want to advertise ourselves as much as possible.
The telling point will be to hear from community directors, filmmakers, etc... What do THEY want to see and would they find such a service useful?
Cheers,
Craig
[%sig%]
>
> There is obvious enthusiasm and need for an Actors Biog service.
So potentially, this proposed database is likely to be HUGE....which could be problematic. Professional directories like Showcast have hundreds and hundreds of entries, even though they're limited by charging a high fee. You can't include a lot of info, so it's mainly your professional headshot. Who looks at them? Professional casting directors for film and TV, mainly. Theatre companies still tend to prefer auditions to find talent.
A directory for community theatre actors is probably not going to attract those viewers...so who's going to look at it? It's not going to be particularly helpful unless it's organised into separate States/regions, and then into age/sex categories. (There's the problem with asking for State funding...this is a nationally accessed website.) And then it's use will be limited to the quality of photo and information it can provide.
There needs to be a balance between keeping it small (nobody wants to wade through pages of info on every actor) and making it useful (you need to know information about skills, vitalstatistics, experience, etc, otherwise what are you gaining by searching?). If the website were organised into thumbnail pages which then opened into more detailed pages; and you were also able to search by category, then it could be quite useful..if the information was kept up to date. It would also be massive.
Knowing from experience with professional agents, they find it hard enough to keep accurate records of the performers on their books, which may only number a hundred or so. At least they know when to delete someone who may no longer be in town...are we going to trust that sort of updating to the individuals? You don't want to sift through the talent pool not knowing whether the information is still valid and not certain whether the performer still resides in your area.
And you're only going to keep it updated if you believe the service is doing you some good - if you're getting results that you would not be getting from the other avenues you normally pursue to get noticed.
Yes, there is obvious support and enthusiasm from the actors - we all want to advertise ourselves as much as possible.
The telling point will be to hear from community directors, filmmakers, etc... What do THEY want to see and would they find such a service useful?
Cheers,
Craig
[%sig%]
NormaSun, 27 July 2003, 02:48 pm
Re: New Poll - Actors Biogs
Right, everyone, or at least the 59% who have endorsed the idea this is what we need:
1. A new computer (the ITA one is in the dinosaur age, technically speaking)
2. Some lovely new software to process all those lovely photos
3. A generous donor to pay for an internet subscription
4. Last, but by no means least, someone to actually do it all, someone who is really, really computer literate and has LOTS OF TIME and like working for nothing
Exists there such a paragon?
Thou beslubbering flap-mouthed horn-beast!
(this thing's uncanny)
1. A new computer (the ITA one is in the dinosaur age, technically speaking)
2. Some lovely new software to process all those lovely photos
3. A generous donor to pay for an internet subscription
4. Last, but by no means least, someone to actually do it all, someone who is really, really computer literate and has LOTS OF TIME and like working for nothing
Exists there such a paragon?
Thou beslubbering flap-mouthed horn-beast!
(this thing's uncanny)
crgwllmsSun, 27 July 2003, 04:21 pm
Re: New Poll REVISED - Actors Biogs
After 1 day, 23 participants voted in regard to an Actor's Biog page.
14 said Yes definitely (60%)
2 said Okay (8%)
5 said Nope (21%)
2 said Don't know (8%)
I know that's not a huge sample to gauge opinion, but early indications are that there's a big interest from actors.
The poll has been revised, however, to try and determine if there would be any end users who are interested....no point in all these interested actors registering their support if all of the directors, filmmakers and other casting bodies aren't interested in looking, or are happy just putting notices in the auditions section as usual...
Remember, as Norma pointed out, there are problems to overcome, and even if someone could be found to solve them, there would be expenses involved...
The Poll-tergeist
[%sig%]
14 said Yes definitely (60%)
2 said Okay (8%)
5 said Nope (21%)
2 said Don't know (8%)
I know that's not a huge sample to gauge opinion, but early indications are that there's a big interest from actors.
The poll has been revised, however, to try and determine if there would be any end users who are interested....no point in all these interested actors registering their support if all of the directors, filmmakers and other casting bodies aren't interested in looking, or are happy just putting notices in the auditions section as usual...
Remember, as Norma pointed out, there are problems to overcome, and even if someone could be found to solve them, there would be expenses involved...
The Poll-tergeist
[%sig%]
LabrugMon, 28 July 2003, 08:26 am
Re: Actors Biogs
For the purposes of a Bio Area that is Non-Agent Specific, I would be prepared to suggest the following.
ITA Membership as per usual. Extra Fee for inclusion into the Bio Data Base. As long as the fee was reasonable, I am sure many would be more than happy to support such a venture.
Also, you could look at a fundraiser of sorts to get the ball rolling.
This is a great idea with huge potential and should really be seriously considered. Maybe even getting a secondary group to help out? Grant?
Thoughts flying here. Must get them organised.
Dixi
Jeff "Scattered" Watkins
[%sig%]
ITA Membership as per usual. Extra Fee for inclusion into the Bio Data Base. As long as the fee was reasonable, I am sure many would be more than happy to support such a venture.
Also, you could look at a fundraiser of sorts to get the ball rolling.
This is a great idea with huge potential and should really be seriously considered. Maybe even getting a secondary group to help out? Grant?
Thoughts flying here. Must get them organised.
Dixi
Jeff "Scattered" Watkins
[%sig%]
NormaMon, 28 July 2003, 11:43 am
Re: New Poll REVISED - Actors Biogs
The preliminary results from your revised poll says a lot!
how does the 35% (or however many) think all this happens?
"Not if I have to pay"!!!!!!!!!!
Do you all think that it doesn't COST anything to set this up??
while most of us are dedicated/stupid enough to do most things for nothing, i for one have just about reached my limit.
Thou fawning doghearted strumpet!
how does the 35% (or however many) think all this happens?
"Not if I have to pay"!!!!!!!!!!
Do you all think that it doesn't COST anything to set this up??
while most of us are dedicated/stupid enough to do most things for nothing, i for one have just about reached my limit.
Thou fawning doghearted strumpet!
David RydingMon, 28 July 2003, 03:14 pm
Re: New Poll REVISED - Actors Biogs
and i think it is again time to go back to the thorny discussion of user pays for this site.
Maybe an annual fee for those who want to advertise via whats on and auditions and not for the message boards? How much would it really be?
No one wants to pay but boy you'd be grunpy if it wasn't here.
Cheers
Dave Ryding
Degree in nothing and obviously I don't know what im talking about (sorry just been reading the review section)
Maybe an annual fee for those who want to advertise via whats on and auditions and not for the message boards? How much would it really be?
No one wants to pay but boy you'd be grunpy if it wasn't here.
Cheers
Dave Ryding
Degree in nothing and obviously I don't know what im talking about (sorry just been reading the review section)
Grant MalcolmMon, 28 July 2003, 08:28 pm
Re: You get what you...
I was at an IT seminar a couple of weeks back where one of the presenters kept repeating a mantra "you get what you pay for" like it was some kind of ultimate truism. Economic rationalism has a lot to answer for.
The last time I checked, I paid my parents nothing for the privilege of bringing me up. I don't pay my friends. Maybe I should be paying my enemies? If I only got what I paid for, Felix's smiles would have sent me broke months back and let's not talk about the size of the IOU for Sharon.
The best things in life used to be free and, in spite of the birth to deathbed consume-consume-consume bombardment we all receive, they still are!
I'm afraid Norma's wishlist a few posts back
http://www.theatre.asn.au/read.php?f=19&i=6112&t=6093
is just that, a wishlist. An ambit claim for costs and purchases that may well be justified, but have no relation to the continued operation or development of this site.
Informed Technology are happy to continue hosting the site gratis as a community service. The only cost to the ITA has been one $80 domain registration fee in the five years the site's been operating. If it came down to a choice between trying to charge people to use this site and forking out a few bucks a year to keep it running, I'd pay it out of my own pocket!
Dave asked:
> How much would it really be?
And that's the scary question.
If you actually had to pay parents to be parents, friends to be friends, all the millions of volunteers in Australia to volunteer, how much do you think it would cost and where would it end?
Once you start paying for things on this site, where will it end? Our hosts at Informed Technology have been very, very generous but we'd be up for at least $500 per annum if we wanted to pay. Any changes to the site would be charged at $82.50 per hour. I once estimated the development cost of the site at $30,000. With new technologies available it would probably be much cheaper to set up now. But still in the $15-20,000 range.
Rather than ambit claims for cash and goodies, let's talk seriously about what we expect to see implemented. Did I hear someone suggest we get a group of interested people together to write up a specification before we start demanding cheques and credit card numbers?
No? Oh.
Someone like to suggest a day/time?
:-)
Cheers
Grant
[%sig%]
The last time I checked, I paid my parents nothing for the privilege of bringing me up. I don't pay my friends. Maybe I should be paying my enemies? If I only got what I paid for, Felix's smiles would have sent me broke months back and let's not talk about the size of the IOU for Sharon.
The best things in life used to be free and, in spite of the birth to deathbed consume-consume-consume bombardment we all receive, they still are!
I'm afraid Norma's wishlist a few posts back
http://www.theatre.asn.au/read.php?f=19&i=6112&t=6093
is just that, a wishlist. An ambit claim for costs and purchases that may well be justified, but have no relation to the continued operation or development of this site.
Informed Technology are happy to continue hosting the site gratis as a community service. The only cost to the ITA has been one $80 domain registration fee in the five years the site's been operating. If it came down to a choice between trying to charge people to use this site and forking out a few bucks a year to keep it running, I'd pay it out of my own pocket!
Dave asked:
> How much would it really be?
And that's the scary question.
If you actually had to pay parents to be parents, friends to be friends, all the millions of volunteers in Australia to volunteer, how much do you think it would cost and where would it end?
Once you start paying for things on this site, where will it end? Our hosts at Informed Technology have been very, very generous but we'd be up for at least $500 per annum if we wanted to pay. Any changes to the site would be charged at $82.50 per hour. I once estimated the development cost of the site at $30,000. With new technologies available it would probably be much cheaper to set up now. But still in the $15-20,000 range.
Rather than ambit claims for cash and goodies, let's talk seriously about what we expect to see implemented. Did I hear someone suggest we get a group of interested people together to write up a specification before we start demanding cheques and credit card numbers?
No? Oh.
Someone like to suggest a day/time?
:-)
Cheers
Grant
[%sig%]
NormaTue, 29 July 2003, 08:37 pm
Re: You get what you...
Hi Grant,
I really got you going didn't I!!
Not all the best things in life are free you know, one has to work damned hard for some of them (and no I don't mean money necessarily)
My point was, I think, that people do seem to expect something for nothing. Almost certainly none of us really appreciate just how many hours you put in to this site, it's creation and maintenance and we are eternally grateful to both you and IT. BUT there is a limit to the time/energy/effort most of us can give without something else giving way. THe ITA exists on the smell of an oily rag and goodwill and the latter is being stretched a very long way.
Thou fawning boil-brained puttock! (A WHAT?)
I really got you going didn't I!!
Not all the best things in life are free you know, one has to work damned hard for some of them (and no I don't mean money necessarily)
My point was, I think, that people do seem to expect something for nothing. Almost certainly none of us really appreciate just how many hours you put in to this site, it's creation and maintenance and we are eternally grateful to both you and IT. BUT there is a limit to the time/energy/effort most of us can give without something else giving way. THe ITA exists on the smell of an oily rag and goodwill and the latter is being stretched a very long way.
Thou fawning boil-brained puttock! (A WHAT?)
crgwllmsWed, 30 July 2003, 03:56 am
Re: You get it?
Norma Davis wrote:
>
> The preliminary results from your revised poll says a lot!
> how does the 35% (or however many) think all this happens?
> "Not if I have to pay"!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Do you all think that it doesn't COST anything to set this up??
> while most of us are dedicated/stupid enough to do most
> things for nothing, i for one have just about reached my limit.
Hi Norma.
The reason I arranged the poll this way was because it had been made clear that there would be expenses involved...therefore, a YES vote is a vote that accepts that it'll need to be paid for.
But to get a better idea of why someone would vote NO, I included two different answers so we could see if price was the objection, or whether people thought it was a bad idea regardless of price.
(I believe I actually voted "not if I have to pay"...fully understanding that I WOULD probably have to pay: my vote doesn't mean I expect to get something for nothing; it indicates that I feel the expense involved will probably outweigh the benefit I'd expect to get.)
There may be others who feel it would be of more service to them; and those who are willing to pay for it. We are still yet to discover enough end users...what do we expect will be the practical result of putting these biogs up on a page?
The Poll-tergeist
A false conclusion: I hate it as an unfilled can!
[%sig%]
>
> The preliminary results from your revised poll says a lot!
> how does the 35% (or however many) think all this happens?
> "Not if I have to pay"!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Do you all think that it doesn't COST anything to set this up??
> while most of us are dedicated/stupid enough to do most
> things for nothing, i for one have just about reached my limit.
Hi Norma.
The reason I arranged the poll this way was because it had been made clear that there would be expenses involved...therefore, a YES vote is a vote that accepts that it'll need to be paid for.
But to get a better idea of why someone would vote NO, I included two different answers so we could see if price was the objection, or whether people thought it was a bad idea regardless of price.
(I believe I actually voted "not if I have to pay"...fully understanding that I WOULD probably have to pay: my vote doesn't mean I expect to get something for nothing; it indicates that I feel the expense involved will probably outweigh the benefit I'd expect to get.)
There may be others who feel it would be of more service to them; and those who are willing to pay for it. We are still yet to discover enough end users...what do we expect will be the practical result of putting these biogs up on a page?
The Poll-tergeist
A false conclusion: I hate it as an unfilled can!
[%sig%]
Melissa MerchantWed, 30 July 2003, 03:01 pm
Re: Actors Biogs
crgwllms wrote:
>
> Yes, there is obvious support and enthusiasm from the actors
> - we all want to advertise ourselves as much as possible.
>
> The telling point will be to hear from community directors,
> filmmakers, etc... What do THEY want to see and would they
> find such a service useful?
And that is, of course, the crux of it all. What is the point in arranging all of this (technical and money issues aside) if those it's aimed at never use it?
We've heard from a bunch of actors, let's hear from the producers and directors. . .
Melissa
(BA Media, most of a BA English and Drama, ITA Committee Member, Blak Yak Teasurer, Yearbook Editor, Junior Leader, PCYC Bowman, hey this is fun, Faction Captain and Professional Student, so feel FREE to ignore me)
>
> Yes, there is obvious support and enthusiasm from the actors
> - we all want to advertise ourselves as much as possible.
>
> The telling point will be to hear from community directors,
> filmmakers, etc... What do THEY want to see and would they
> find such a service useful?
And that is, of course, the crux of it all. What is the point in arranging all of this (technical and money issues aside) if those it's aimed at never use it?
We've heard from a bunch of actors, let's hear from the producers and directors. . .
Melissa
(BA Media, most of a BA English and Drama, ITA Committee Member, Blak Yak Teasurer, Yearbook Editor, Junior Leader, PCYC Bowman, hey this is fun, Faction Captain and Professional Student, so feel FREE to ignore me)
LabrugThu, 31 July 2003, 08:55 am
To pay or not to pay...
I have been keeping a close check on the poll results and have seen that the number of people who would like a Bio area are quite significant.
So far, 80 participants have replied (low numbers in my opinion). Even so, a total of 49 have stated "Yes" (61%).
25% of all participants (41% of Yes Votes) have stated that costs could discourage them while 22.5% (37%) have claimed that cost is not important.
However, 13.75% (22.5%) are directors who would obviously be looking for cast members. Considering the small sample so far, this is pretty significant a result and I would suggest to actors out there that if there are a significant number of directors out there that use this site, then it would pay to invest in a service as is being suggested. Ecce signum. If some are using the site already, then more are likely to do so if such a service existed, don't you think?
Also, do not forget that this site reaches across to globe, not just the states of Australia. Out of many web sites I know of that promote Actors and Theatre, very few have penetrated as far as this site. For an organisation and site that run off the smell of an oily rag, it is a very successful site.
Carpe diem.
Jeff
[%sig%]
So far, 80 participants have replied (low numbers in my opinion). Even so, a total of 49 have stated "Yes" (61%).
25% of all participants (41% of Yes Votes) have stated that costs could discourage them while 22.5% (37%) have claimed that cost is not important.
However, 13.75% (22.5%) are directors who would obviously be looking for cast members. Considering the small sample so far, this is pretty significant a result and I would suggest to actors out there that if there are a significant number of directors out there that use this site, then it would pay to invest in a service as is being suggested. Ecce signum. If some are using the site already, then more are likely to do so if such a service existed, don't you think?
Also, do not forget that this site reaches across to globe, not just the states of Australia. Out of many web sites I know of that promote Actors and Theatre, very few have penetrated as far as this site. For an organisation and site that run off the smell of an oily rag, it is a very successful site.
Carpe diem.
Jeff
[%sig%]
NormaThu, 31 July 2003, 11:39 am
Re: You get it?
Sorry Craig,
I didn't realise just how grumpy I sounded until I re-read my own posting!!! Put it down to the 1 am finishing off of the fourtieth version of the theatre programme for Breaker Morant (slight exaggeration but not much) "A show that should be seen by everyone in Perth" - comment on radio this morning.
It does appear that there is considerable enthusiasm for the project and no doubt it will appear on the agenda for next weeks ITA committee meeting.
Watch this space.
Thou lumpish pottle-deep pigeon-egg!
I didn't realise just how grumpy I sounded until I re-read my own posting!!! Put it down to the 1 am finishing off of the fourtieth version of the theatre programme for Breaker Morant (slight exaggeration but not much) "A show that should be seen by everyone in Perth" - comment on radio this morning.
It does appear that there is considerable enthusiasm for the project and no doubt it will appear on the agenda for next weeks ITA committee meeting.
Watch this space.
Thou lumpish pottle-deep pigeon-egg!
Walter PlingeSun, 3 Aug 2003, 11:11 am
as a director
As a director, what would be the point of wading through bios when the only true indication of an actor's interest in being in your production is whether they front to an audition?
As an actor, would I believe that directors would look through all those bios? I wouldn't think so.
Thou surly flap-mouthed pignut!
As an actor, would I believe that directors would look through all those bios? I wouldn't think so.
Thou surly flap-mouthed pignut!
Walter PlingeSun, 3 Aug 2003, 11:29 am
Re: as a director
I think what we would be aiming for is a sustem where a director wouldn't have to search through a ton of bios.
Lets say for example you need an eighteen year old Aboriginal actress for your show...but didn't get one at audition. You go to the site and search with a specific search for State: Western Australia, Sex: Female, Ethnicity: Aboriginal. You come up (for example) with two "matches" one of whom is 54, the other 23. Looking at the 23 year old (Cathy) you discover that she can sing (which you need) and that she has extensive experience. You look up the shows on the site...you have the option of contacting previous directors or reading reviews if you choose. You can then ring or email a central contact, which contacts Cathy and asks her to call you.
That's the general idea, that we were working towards a few years ago. We just didn't have the experience/time/inclination/person power/ undefinable something to make it happen. Maybe we do now. Maybe someone wants to adopt it as their "baby".
We shall see.
Kimberley Shaw
Vice President ITA...Expressing my own opinion
Lets say for example you need an eighteen year old Aboriginal actress for your show...but didn't get one at audition. You go to the site and search with a specific search for State: Western Australia, Sex: Female, Ethnicity: Aboriginal. You come up (for example) with two "matches" one of whom is 54, the other 23. Looking at the 23 year old (Cathy) you discover that she can sing (which you need) and that she has extensive experience. You look up the shows on the site...you have the option of contacting previous directors or reading reviews if you choose. You can then ring or email a central contact, which contacts Cathy and asks her to call you.
That's the general idea, that we were working towards a few years ago. We just didn't have the experience/time/inclination/person power/ undefinable something to make it happen. Maybe we do now. Maybe someone wants to adopt it as their "baby".
We shall see.
Kimberley Shaw
Vice President ITA...Expressing my own opinion
crgwllmsSun, 3 Aug 2003, 11:27 pm
Re: the direct approach
But... if Cathy has ever performed in a show attached to this website, she already has people (previous directors, actors, etc) who know her and would probably this minute be drawing her attention to the very notice you just posted....which would be even more productive if you'd posted it in the auditions section, directly advertising your specific needs.
What if, rather than needing someone so unique, you were looking for an early 20's white female...would the search engine be quite as useful?
Not wanting to squash a budding idea, but devil's advocate enough to want to make it justify itself harder...
Cheers,
Craig
[%sig%]
CrispianMon, 4 Aug 2003, 12:34 pm
Re: Actors Biogs
For the sake of discussion....
Is Perth's acting community really that big enough to justify having a central actors database online?
Surely if a director wanted to hold an audition for a show, every actor in perth would hear about it by contacting the agents and posting an audition notice on this website.
There would be no more than 1-3 degrees of separation between every director and actor here in perth, which means word of mouth would work quite effectively.
And the point about paying for a service - surely Showcast and our own homegrown CASTING BOOK (which Annie Murtagh-Monks has been plugging for every local actor to join) will be able enough coverage for our local actors?
If an audition notice is posted well in advance most actors would know about it and it would be up to them to decide whether they want to audition.
I must admit that I only skimmed through the previous postings so if i've already reiterated someone else's posting....I apologise. If i've missed the whole point of the original discussion - I apologise also.
Crispy :)
Is Perth's acting community really that big enough to justify having a central actors database online?
Surely if a director wanted to hold an audition for a show, every actor in perth would hear about it by contacting the agents and posting an audition notice on this website.
There would be no more than 1-3 degrees of separation between every director and actor here in perth, which means word of mouth would work quite effectively.
And the point about paying for a service - surely Showcast and our own homegrown CASTING BOOK (which Annie Murtagh-Monks has been plugging for every local actor to join) will be able enough coverage for our local actors?
If an audition notice is posted well in advance most actors would know about it and it would be up to them to decide whether they want to audition.
I must admit that I only skimmed through the previous postings so if i've already reiterated someone else's posting....I apologise. If i've missed the whole point of the original discussion - I apologise also.
Crispy :)
LabrugMon, 4 Aug 2003, 02:01 pm
Re: Actors Biogs
I think I just prove the case. I didn't know about SHOWCASE (now is that just me or what?).
I feel the whole issue is about exposure. Fair enough, if there is already substantial exposure out there then great. In actu, how much is enough?
Jeff "Veni, vidi ..." Watkins
[%sig%]
I feel the whole issue is about exposure. Fair enough, if there is already substantial exposure out there then great. In actu, how much is enough?
Jeff "Veni, vidi ..." Watkins
[%sig%]
Greg RossMon, 4 Aug 2003, 03:29 pm
Re: Actors Biogs
IÂ’m another who was not aware of the Showcase site, which carries various accolades for its services, (including one from Ms Murtagh-Monks), all of which indicate that an actors biog service is a useful tool for directors and actors alike. Listing on Showcase is not cheap, although it may well be worthwhile. The prices range from $70.00 to $120.00 for adults.
I must admit to being a touch surprised to read that Ms Gefken, in the role of director, would rely on attendance at an audition as the sole indicator of interest. I mean no reflection on the lady, who I have not met, but surely passion for a play could well lead to a director wanting a particular person for a role. Why leave things to chance and availability on a particular day?
When I first mooted the idea of this site hosting actors biogs, it was very much from an amateur theatre perspective, on the assumption, that the more serious, intending professional, or professional people would have an agent working on their behalf, although it would appear from the Showcase site, that directors utilise the site as a major reference point.
A Biog List could never be a substitute for auditions, rather a time saving productive method of farming for talent, where directors with a project in mind, could read through the biogs and contact individuals to ascertain and perhaps encourage interest.
Cheers
Greg Ross
I must admit to being a touch surprised to read that Ms Gefken, in the role of director, would rely on attendance at an audition as the sole indicator of interest. I mean no reflection on the lady, who I have not met, but surely passion for a play could well lead to a director wanting a particular person for a role. Why leave things to chance and availability on a particular day?
When I first mooted the idea of this site hosting actors biogs, it was very much from an amateur theatre perspective, on the assumption, that the more serious, intending professional, or professional people would have an agent working on their behalf, although it would appear from the Showcase site, that directors utilise the site as a major reference point.
A Biog List could never be a substitute for auditions, rather a time saving productive method of farming for talent, where directors with a project in mind, could read through the biogs and contact individuals to ascertain and perhaps encourage interest.
Cheers
Greg Ross
crgwllmsMon, 4 Aug 2003, 06:02 pm
Re: ShowCast etc..
Showcast (probably the biggest, referred to nationally, the kind of thing you'd want to be in for Home And Away, Lord of The Rings or Lion King type auditions, costs between $70-120 annually for an up-to half-page listing, and includes the print directory and internet listings, with a lot of searchable criteria, a ten show biog, and options for audio/video clips.
(deadline 1st Sept) www.showcast.com.au for more accurate details.
The Casting Couch Book promoted by Annie Murtagh-Monks (WA casting agent) costs $135-150, and has similar options plus professionally printed 'comp cards' for handing photo/CV out at auditions. (deadline 15 August) call Ali 0439 7996 55 or Carri 9364 1477 for more accurate details.
The advantage of these books is they are actively promoted. Showcast is so well known nationally that casting agents automatically refer to it, probably above most other things. The Casting Couch is new and WA-based but is being actively promoted throughout the industry by a leading casting agent here. Both are widely advertised.
My impression so far of a biog page here is that it will be a lot cheaper, but provide less details...and probably not be actively advertising itself anywhere but here. So to find it, a director has to already know about this website...
I guess the advantage of a community biog page, besides cheaper accessibility, is that it won't be flooded with every actor who wants to be on Neighbours (will it?). Fewer participants, organised locally, means more chance of being viewed by local amateur directors...if they're interested in looking.
Cheers,
Craig
[%sig%]
LabrugTue, 5 Aug 2003, 08:09 am
Re: ShowCast etc..
Following up from both Greg and Craig, keeping a focus on the purely Community Theatre perspective is probably the best approach.
Well, after all, this site is really an info site for Community Theatre and so obviously any further developments to it would only benefit Community Theatre participants.
Show Case looks interesting, and if I had the financial support would register in a snap. However, I can't see that happening in the immediate future, not unless I get a small win fall from Lotto and am able to pay off my debts and bills first... ;-)
On the other hand, there is a latin saying - fortes fortuna adiuvat (fortune favours the brave). Maybe I'm not brave enough.
Jeff "Aude Sapere" Watkins
[%sig%]
Well, after all, this site is really an info site for Community Theatre and so obviously any further developments to it would only benefit Community Theatre participants.
Show Case looks interesting, and if I had the financial support would register in a snap. However, I can't see that happening in the immediate future, not unless I get a small win fall from Lotto and am able to pay off my debts and bills first... ;-)
On the other hand, there is a latin saying - fortes fortuna adiuvat (fortune favours the brave). Maybe I'm not brave enough.
Jeff "Aude Sapere" Watkins
[%sig%]
crgwllmsTue, 12 Aug 2003, 10:48 pm
Re: Poll results - Actors Biogs
Recent poll about an Actor's Biogs page ...
"Would you utilise a page on this site used to show Actors' Biogs?"
191 responses in just over a fortnight.
Actors who said YES: 53 (29%)
Actors who said NOT if it will COST Anything: 51 (28%)
Actors who said NO : 35 (19%)
[Assuming it WILL cost something, Total actors who've said NO: 86 (47%).
If it will NOT cost, total actors who said YES: 104 (57%) ]
Directors/casting people who said YES: 22 (12%)
Directors/casting people who said NO: 8 (4%)
People who Don't care: 13 (7%)
As far as actors wanting to use it, it seems the majority are interested so long as there is no expense...but if it were to cost, there would not the interest.
A poor response from directors/casting folk/end users....about 2/3 of the ones who voted registered a positive interest...but they were a very small sample of the overall response.
Cheers,
The Poll-tergeist
[%sig%]
"Would you utilise a page on this site used to show Actors' Biogs?"
191 responses in just over a fortnight.
Actors who said YES: 53 (29%)
Actors who said NOT if it will COST Anything: 51 (28%)
Actors who said NO : 35 (19%)
[Assuming it WILL cost something, Total actors who've said NO: 86 (47%).
If it will NOT cost, total actors who said YES: 104 (57%) ]
Directors/casting people who said YES: 22 (12%)
Directors/casting people who said NO: 8 (4%)
People who Don't care: 13 (7%)
As far as actors wanting to use it, it seems the majority are interested so long as there is no expense...but if it were to cost, there would not the interest.
A poor response from directors/casting folk/end users....about 2/3 of the ones who voted registered a positive interest...but they were a very small sample of the overall response.
Cheers,
The Poll-tergeist
[%sig%]
SebastianThu, 29 July 2004, 02:50 pm
What happened to the Biog Idea
In July 2003 there was an idea put forward by Greg Ross about a Biography page that Community actors can post there JPEGÂ’s and a three to four line bio of themself.
Did this idea fizzle out or is it under construction?
I feel that this Idea would help in the community theatre circuit. Although their may be 3 to 4 degrees of separation between directors but what about actors?
There has to be more actors out their that donÂ’t have such a small degree of separation.
The page I think should be constructed and IÂ’m sure thereÂ’s some1 with the knowledge and the time to help do it cheaply.
Which brings me to the matter of cost should there be one or not? How much? Well I think that would have to be a minimum admin cost simply because of the fact that this site is basically free for use. I think that there should be some sort of benefit for the person or persons who admin this whole site.
A database that holds biographies and pictures of actors/ dancers/ techies/ musicians/ what everÂ’s, would also help others put faces to names.
Plus the new comers to the world of ITA could also benefit, say there is a person who is out there who wants to do a short film and they want to do a pre screen of people who have replied to their audition post. They could look in the database and check out if they look the part. They could cross-reference with previous directors.
Most of these ideas IÂ’m sure you herd before but I think that a bio page would be very suitable for this site.
Just my idea of a good idea. All inspired buy Greg Ross
[%sig%]
Did this idea fizzle out or is it under construction?
I feel that this Idea would help in the community theatre circuit. Although their may be 3 to 4 degrees of separation between directors but what about actors?
There has to be more actors out their that donÂ’t have such a small degree of separation.
The page I think should be constructed and IÂ’m sure thereÂ’s some1 with the knowledge and the time to help do it cheaply.
Which brings me to the matter of cost should there be one or not? How much? Well I think that would have to be a minimum admin cost simply because of the fact that this site is basically free for use. I think that there should be some sort of benefit for the person or persons who admin this whole site.
A database that holds biographies and pictures of actors/ dancers/ techies/ musicians/ what everÂ’s, would also help others put faces to names.
Plus the new comers to the world of ITA could also benefit, say there is a person who is out there who wants to do a short film and they want to do a pre screen of people who have replied to their audition post. They could look in the database and check out if they look the part. They could cross-reference with previous directors.
Most of these ideas IÂ’m sure you herd before but I think that a bio page would be very suitable for this site.
Just my idea of a good idea. All inspired buy Greg Ross
[%sig%]
crgwllmsThu, 29 July 2004, 05:43 pm
Re: The Biog idea ...that got Bogged
sebastian wrote:
>
> In July 2003 there was an idea put forward by Greg Ross about
> a Biography page that Community actors can post there JPEGÂ’s
> and a three to four line bio of themself.
> Did this idea fizzle out or is it under construction?
There was a flurry of enthusiastic discussion for a short time, but nothing practical was ever put into motion.
If you read all the arguments in the above thread, you can get a good idea of the major obstacles.. which are yet to be overcome.
A poll held at the time indicated that most actors would use it if it didn't cost anything...but were much less enthusiastic about its benefits if they had to spend much to be part of it.
And the truth is, it wouldn't be viable for the ITA to maintain unless there WAS a charge for the service.
The same poll and related discussion drew a very poor response from any directors or casting agents...and what's the point of paying to publicise yourself if no directors have indicated they'd be bothered looking at it?
There are national and local organisations that run a professional services that are more likely to get results, because that is ALL they do. Obviously there is a higher cost involved....but how does the ITA compete with that level of service?
The counter-argument has been to suggest that those facilities are mainly geared for serious professionals, and there is a demand for a service only used by amateur communities...
The trouble is, most amateur communities aren't looking to search the ENTIRE internet for performers...so unless the database is highly organised, continually updated, and contains enough information to allow definitive searches, there's a good chance it will be flooded with too much information and become useless. My own fear is that it will become a billion entries from around the globe that say "13yr old girl looking for a job" ...except with pictures!!
> say there is a person who is out there who wants to do a
> short film and they want to do a pre screen of people who
> have replied to their audition post. They could look in the
> database and check out if they look the part.
I think a far easier solution, given that everyone who responds to an internet post is already computer literate, would be for the actors to obtain their headshots in an email-friendly JPG format (which they'd have to do anyway, were there a database), and send them on to the director they're responding to. Does the same thing, doesn't it?
Cheers,
Craig
>
> In July 2003 there was an idea put forward by Greg Ross about
> a Biography page that Community actors can post there JPEGÂ’s
> and a three to four line bio of themself.
> Did this idea fizzle out or is it under construction?
There was a flurry of enthusiastic discussion for a short time, but nothing practical was ever put into motion.
If you read all the arguments in the above thread, you can get a good idea of the major obstacles.. which are yet to be overcome.
A poll held at the time indicated that most actors would use it if it didn't cost anything...but were much less enthusiastic about its benefits if they had to spend much to be part of it.
And the truth is, it wouldn't be viable for the ITA to maintain unless there WAS a charge for the service.
The same poll and related discussion drew a very poor response from any directors or casting agents...and what's the point of paying to publicise yourself if no directors have indicated they'd be bothered looking at it?
There are national and local organisations that run a professional services that are more likely to get results, because that is ALL they do. Obviously there is a higher cost involved....but how does the ITA compete with that level of service?
The counter-argument has been to suggest that those facilities are mainly geared for serious professionals, and there is a demand for a service only used by amateur communities...
The trouble is, most amateur communities aren't looking to search the ENTIRE internet for performers...so unless the database is highly organised, continually updated, and contains enough information to allow definitive searches, there's a good chance it will be flooded with too much information and become useless. My own fear is that it will become a billion entries from around the globe that say "13yr old girl looking for a job" ...except with pictures!!
> say there is a person who is out there who wants to do a
> short film and they want to do a pre screen of people who
> have replied to their audition post. They could look in the
> database and check out if they look the part.
I think a far easier solution, given that everyone who responds to an internet post is already computer literate, would be for the actors to obtain their headshots in an email-friendly JPG format (which they'd have to do anyway, were there a database), and send them on to the director they're responding to. Does the same thing, doesn't it?
Cheers,
Craig
CrispianFri, 30 July 2004, 12:06 am
Re: The Biog idea ...that got Bogged
Just to supplement Mr Williams' point...
It seems to me that this boils down to basic economics.
If we already have 2-3 professional websites where people pay between $70-$200 for the privilege, we can't expect someone to set up a website that does the same thing for anything less. No one would want to invest the time to do all that coding and data entry for less than $70 at least I would think.
Also, people might also want to be aware of the counter-benefits of having your profile online for a director to peruse....
PRE-CASTING.
Anyone who is with an agency knows how frustrating it can be when there is an audition coming up for a commercial, play or film and been passed over because the producer or director have looked at their headshot and thought, "I don't think they fit the part".
Having an online archive may stop directors holding open auditions and restrict opportunities for people to strut their stuff.
Lets think about what purpose this online database serves...is it to widen your profile or simply to indulge your ego? Its a fiiine line.
Crispy.
It seems to me that this boils down to basic economics.
If we already have 2-3 professional websites where people pay between $70-$200 for the privilege, we can't expect someone to set up a website that does the same thing for anything less. No one would want to invest the time to do all that coding and data entry for less than $70 at least I would think.
Also, people might also want to be aware of the counter-benefits of having your profile online for a director to peruse....
PRE-CASTING.
Anyone who is with an agency knows how frustrating it can be when there is an audition coming up for a commercial, play or film and been passed over because the producer or director have looked at their headshot and thought, "I don't think they fit the part".
Having an online archive may stop directors holding open auditions and restrict opportunities for people to strut their stuff.
Lets think about what purpose this online database serves...is it to widen your profile or simply to indulge your ego? Its a fiiine line.
Crispy.
crgwllmsFri, 30 July 2004, 01:31 am
Re: Biog degradable
Good point, Crispy.
Pre-casting has been a contentious point brought up only recently on another thread.
Perhaps the main supporters of a photo-based data base are those who think their photo is their best asset to publicise?
With a mug like mine, I'm inclined to prefer directors see me act...
Cheers,
Craig
[%sig%]
SebastianFri, 30 July 2004, 09:30 am
Re: No biog?
I stand defeated by facts placed in front of me, although it will not stop me to think of a better, cheaper way to do this, and then put it into process,
Note: goal 237 in SebastianÂ’s life goal book, make new website for actors bioÂ’s.
Truly the facts hurt this idea but I love a challenge,
Thanks for an intelligent reply Craig and Crisp.
[%sig%]
Note: goal 237 in SebastianÂ’s life goal book, make new website for actors bioÂ’s.
Truly the facts hurt this idea but I love a challenge,
Thanks for an intelligent reply Craig and Crisp.
[%sig%]
Walter PlingeFri, 30 July 2004, 09:41 pm
Re: Biog degradable
And some others such as myself have a face far better suited to radio, and behind the scenes!!!