intervals

How long should the main interval be? 10 minutes? Or would 20 minutes start to spoil the flow of the show? How often do you find that you have had tea and a biscuit, done your ‘trip to the toilet’ and are now standing for a further 10 minutes, aimlessly awaiting the start of the second act?

At a show I saw recently, there were several necessary blackouts throughout the play; some were possibly 15 seconds, whilst others, according to the programme, were supposed to be two minutes when three or more minutes in total darkness was nearer the mark. At what stage should the auditorium lights be raised – possibly to half level – rather than having the audience sit in the dark? Or could this result in patrons wandering out of their seats and not returning in time for the curtains reopening?

Should low-level, appropriate music be played during all of the blackouts and intervals?

You've really got two questions there: how long should intervals be, and how long should blackouts be? My rule of thumb for blackouts is about 10 seconds. Audiences get fidgety in blackouts and long ones tend to ruin pace (unless it's pacing done on purpose, which is more about playwrights'/directors intentions than about anything else), as well as confusing an audience to when the show has finished. Long blackouts also have the added effect of making the show seem drawn out and boring to the audience. I know from a technical point of view, if the actors are taking longer than 10 seconds I get antsy (as SM) and can often throw other timings off like lighting cues. If there are genuine issues with costume/set changes, then perhaps a rethink of who does what when is in order, along with a rethink of whether those costume/set changes are necessary. (This is especially true of touring shows) As for intervals, that's hard to judge. Recently at Ronnie Burkett's show, I was stunned to find out that he had no interval. His shows usually run for a good 2.5 hours or so, and usually have intervals - 15/20 minutes in the middle. The pace was good enough for the show that I'm not sure it mattered, but I do know that sitting still for so long tends to make your legs go a little numb. Normally I find his pacing so fast, you need a decent break in the middle just to catch up with it all. On the other hand, I've seen shows where we've come back from an interval only to be bored to death for three hours, and others where an interval ruined the pacing of a fairly short show. Obviously it depends on the length of the show, but let's go with an average of a couple of hours. A good 15-20 minute interval in the middle is fine. I think the old custom of having intervals between first and second, then second and third act, can also be disruptive to audiences these days - who have less fortitude and willingness to watch a show for so long through a whole evening. Mostly, intervals seem to be about going to the bathroom, getting a drink, stretching your legs, and buying merchandise. Ten minutes is too short, 30 minutes too long. Raising the lights should be left only to pre and post show cues I think, and unless they involve audience participation or actors in the audience seating, usually signal to the audience that it's time to leave. Music during blackouts is fine, but again, if you're needing to have blackouts for so long, then perhaps you need to rethink what you're doing. Of course, there's nothing wrong with turning the scene changes/long intervals into a part of the show itself - I've seen this done well using circus clowns (funnily enough, both human and marionette, but in different shows) and other 'extras'. Puppets and patterns at Puppets in Melbourne

I believe 20 mins is good for an interval - but if there's going to be second interval it should be 10 mins only. Personally two intervals seems crazy to me, I'd rather get it all over with in one hit!

20 minutes is just enough time for a cuppa & a smokeo. 15 seconds is far too long for a blackout, without something happening. I get annoyed with the use of tabs or the house rag for scene changes, when with a litle bit of creative staging it can be achieved seamlessly.

I think it's good to advertise a 15 min interval which you can then stretch to as much as 20 mins if you have a large or particularly slow crowd in. I think you should always fill blackouts with music, if possible, if there's a bit of set changing going on. I did a play once which had four minute scene changes, even though the entire play and all four scenes were set in the same room. (I acted in the play, that is - I wasn't responsible for the four minute scene changes)

Did a show last nite where they put a supper in the break and it stretched to 25 minutes. Accordingly we didn't get offstage until around 10.30pm or after. This is just aggravating for the performers. 15 minutes and no more

Interval in my opinion should be 20 minutes at the most. With regards to blackouts, they are my pet hate particularly in Perth Community Theatre. If you have blackouts lasting longer than ten seconds, it shows that the director has not done their homework with the logistics of the script being presented in terms of setting and costume. It is also an insult to your actors hard work in performance, once your audience's attenion has dropped, they have to work so much harder to win them back again...the more long blackouts the more this occurs and can turn a great production into a very sad train wreck. If the problem is your venue...then youve chosen the wrong play for the venue...more fool you. The director, sm and technical crew should be working as a team to make the transition between scenes as seamless as possible, by coming up with solutions to the problems presented by the script. A few tricks are; 1)Streamlining props - if it isnt going to be used as part of the action - don't include it! I saw a production where a fully prepared dinner and wine were on the table and barely touched by the cast and totally irrelevant to the production as a whole...it could have been omitted....the scene was short and the scene change was long...not good. 2)Actors can move small props when they end their scene. A production had a gentleman in the middle of the set going through old LP's (the old fashioned vinyl records from the pre CD/Ipod era for the younger set that dont remember) another person was reading a newspaper and drinking a glass of wine. At the end of the scene when they walked off the stage the props were left behind when they could easily been taken off by the actors, the lp guy could have scooped the LP's up and he newspaper and drink could have been taken off by the actors..instead of having to be cleaned up by the stage crew...a very simple technique which would have shortened the scene change from 2 minutes (as it ended up being) to ten second I went to see a production of a movie adapted for the stage, and it showed that it was originally a movie, their were at times 5 minute scene changes for a 2 minute scene, and the production suffered badly as a result, in all honesty it was torture to watch it, and the long blackouts made me totally lose track with the story. 3) Dress your set for minimal alteration during the course of the play, or if you can't build clever sets that can have bits pulled out or covered up quickly. I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is on this and run a workshop of how to overcome theses difficulties in staging...because its an area that isnt being tackled well in Perth. Just a few thoughts, in short, its a case of the 6 "P's". Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. That is the key to overcoming the dreaded blackout trap. Cheers Robert.

True Gaafa! Tech stuff is usually a last minute afterthought, if that, and the lack of preparation in the area in terms of putting on a show is the equivalent of painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa. Cheers Robert

G'done Robert!     

I agree with this, often new directors (who are usually actors and not familiar at all with how crews work) leave the SM or stage crew to figure out best striking methods, and quite often, especially in amateur or fringe shows, the crew have no idea how to do this efficiently. I would though like to point out a slightly off topic but relevant idea: there are cases where I've worked with actors who weren't particularly (for lack of better phrasing) bright. A specific case I remember was a senior citizen who couldn't remember where the wings were and so we had to have low level blue lights (the 'dressing room' didn't actually have a work light) so she could see where to go. Sadly, she also not only couldn't see, but couldn't remember which side of the stage to exit/enter, and ended up having to be escorted by one of the crew between scenes. A couple of times she tried to help strike the set herself, despite being clearly and repeatedly told that that was someone else's job. Often meaning pacing was lost, along with the 'prettiness' of the scene change and the efficiency of the crew. I think perhaps that we forget that there are times when there's only so much we can do to make scene changes smooth and as unobtrusive as possible. Puppets and patterns at Puppets in Melbourne

Yes Na, I concede that sometimes despite our best efforts there are things beyond our control, I am merely pointing out cases where greater attention to the presentation of a production would have made things smoother. We do, after all live in an imperfect world, and even well planned shows can be stinkers.

Oh I couldn't agree more: in my above case, greater attention could have been provided since the director (new, but supposedly had acting training in the US) knew that the senior citizen was a bit dotty and provided no support whatsoever in teaching the actress (also supposedly with great TV experience but little to no theatre experience in some few decades) to learn the exits and entrances. In this case, it's a matter of the director being so blindsided by aesthetics to care much about the safety and wellbeing of an actress who on a number of occasions could have walked off the front of the stage without knowing it. It's like that old saying, measure twice cut once. I think very few directors actually appreciate the limits of physics and human abilities when it comes to props, sets, scene changes, and everything else. They just assume it will work on the night; and blame the techies when they discover their ideas are too high-falluting when they don't. Puppets and patterns at Puppets in Melbourne

Having just read Robert J Whyte's comments, I feel the need to reply. The offensive tone and manner in which you write Robert is completely unsatisfactory, I have to say that I largely agree with the context of what you are saying, I too find blackouts intolerable, however, the aggressive tone you adopt just makes you sound arrogant. Also, if you want to let us know as how to do things accordingly, feel free to open up a forum here, from which you can instruct us. In doing so Im sure Perth and all the states will benefit from your rich wisdom. Maybe if anyone has seen a show in Perth in which Robert has directed be sure to let me know, include in your comments the command of skill shown in creating smooth transitions.

...now you see I read Robert J's post and thought it was accurate, constructive and no way offensive in tone or manner. Maybe that's because he wasn't referring to anything I have ever directed (because I've never directed anything!). I've read way more blatantly arrogant posts from 'long-termers'/veterans of these forums and from within the Perth theatre community. Perception and what 'glasses' you used to read these posts is a funny thing.....

...agree that they should be 20mins total (so with a warning to the house at 10mins and a call for them to be seated at 5mins). And if you've got a tiny house and it's not too difficult for the actors and/or crew (in a show right now where the lead has a mammoth transformation to make during interval & the tiny stage crew are working like crazy just to be ready for Act 2 with a massive set transformation), then you could bring it back to 15mins total. As for blackouts, thought Robert's input was constructive and accurate. But am aware that there's the 'ideal' way of operating and then there's the compromises to be made when you're 'on the ground' working your butt off with little or no support. If we could learn to work more synergistically without anyone's egos getting bruised or 'identities' being threatened it would be a real boost to the community theatre scene IMHO. I certainly don't have 'all' the answers. No one does. That's the point! PS. A workshop would be great. But the only problem is, you'd probably be preaching to the converted; and you also have the added issue of how incredibly difficult it is to get anyone who is willing and able to make an ongoing commitment to working back stage. But even if more actors could be trained in the art of contributing it could alleviate some pressure on stage management and the already over burdened Directors. Not ideal to have actors doubling as crew I know, but a few small contributions can sometimes make a world of difference.

I don't see why workshops wouldn't be well attended - plenty of people out there actually do want to learn backstage roles, and outside of the amateur show, certificates and university courses, there aren't many ways of learning it. I personally would enjoy a course - like many actors - that refreshes my knowledge and skills on running a show. In fact, an introductory course provided by amateur groups would be of real benefit - when I started teching with amateur gourps it was "dive in, follow our lead and learn", which actually made me LESS aware of safety issues, correct crewing procedures and so forth. I have no doubt that many amateur groups may have no idea of those concepts themselves, but many more do and could bbenefit from introducing new and old members each season to the baics of crewing. On a slight odd tangent, what do people think of asking the audience to leave the venue (audience seating) during intervals for set changes? I personally don't like being kicked out of my seat, but also temper it with an understanding that safety and aesthetic concerns ("we don't want the audience to see the set before it's completely arranged") from the show's POV. Puppets and patterns at Puppets in Melbourne

I have only just twigged that there is rarely the opportunity in the community setting to do what I guess I'd call a 'proper' tech run - ie. lighting, a-v cues, prop and set changes, exits/entrances, costume changes/coordination, setting of costumes and props back stage to suit production, etc, etc.....A run where crew, actors and Director are all present and providing input and solidifying exactly who is doing what and when. And then poor Directors and crew primarily get hammered in reviews for poor technical aspects of shows. And possibly the argument is that they are deserving of such for having failed in the planning stages. But I fear it is just not that simple/black & white - these things never are; not when so much is given by so many for no compensation and often little appreciation. Sigh.....feeling a little melancholy today clearly.... But I have resolved to go straight to our SM tonight when I get there and ask her how I can help more! [insert blush here for having not thought to do so before now....]

Well aren't we a senisitive little soul. I was proposing putting my money where my mouth is, becasue the problems I am commenting on are based on my observation. FYI, I have many years exeprience in All areas of a production, and i have directed several times albeit several years ago. What a sensitive soul you are, to be affronted by someone willing to stick their neck out and give some honest feedback to people who may want to avoid the pitfalls I describe to improve the overall quality of their show. If you find my comments aggressive then you must be someone with an overly inflated ego that knows it all, which at no point did I ever say I was, one thing I do know in life is that noone is either perfect, or knows everything. My proposal is to get a group of interested parties together, get them to bring along scripts they would like to produce, and get the creative process started on staging the shows, in basic scenarios of different venues, different ways of building sets, and get people who wish to direct, thinking about this much neglected ar in 2007 and 2008 I saw over 100+ community theatre productions as a Finley Judge, and blackouts were the most common, and what is more easily overcome in a lot of cases by some simple planning, and in my opinion is sheer lack of attention to a vital part of the presentation. I have many years experience, I am always willing to learn more, and oft have had my opinions challenged, and in some cases learned a hell of a lot in the process. Yes I have directed, and acted and designed and built sets, been ASM, SM designed and operated lights and sound, everything I do I learn something new. After all that time I am still learning, even some of the great actors such as Sir Laurence Olivier on Sir John Gielgud towards the end of their lives stated they were still learning new things. There is an old saying "Share your knowledge,too many people don't out of fear." If such a course/workshop did eventuate, I would expect to learn from the experience too, it is through discussion of ideas and sharing experience that is the best way to grow as a performer or director or any other part of presenting theatre. So do me a favour Danni, get off my case, or I may just go into further gory and extremely blunt detail as to why I resigned from the ITA committee over your actions that you may not want me to put on this site. Regards Robert.

"On a slight odd tangent, what do people think of asking the audience to leave the venue (audience seating) during intervals for set changes?" I've never been asked to leave, not in over 20 years of attending community theatre, performance school theatre or professional theatre... BUT....I like my glass of champas, a stretch of the legs and a little chin wag.....so they never have to ask me and there may have been times when it was required and I wouldn't have known because I am out the door so fast! ;) But as a concept I have no objection at all. Although I think that that option/necessity should be forefront in planning of any production and only utilised if absolutely essential for safety or integrity reasons.

This has only happened to me recently at a couple of uni productions. I can't recall it happening in professional venues, although I have a feeling it might have happened once. On the last occasion though I'm not sure it was safety, but more aesthetics. The set was large and rather fixed in place, so I can't see why there would have been overly concerning safety issues. Puppets and patterns at Puppets in Melbourne

I consider 20 minutes to be the perfect interval. Smokers need the opportunity to get outside, either before or after obtaining liquid refreshment, then there's the queue for the Ladies....always longer than for the Gents. (insert humble plea to new venues and/or architects who might, by magic, read this to seriously install double the usual ladies' cubicles). On the subject of blackouts I tend to fall in with Na, ten seconds is really about it. However, there are exceptions. If a BO is likely to go beyond 10 seconds due to a tricky change of some kind please bring in some relevant music or sound scape. It helps the audience to know that what they're experiencing is just a bridge to the next scene (it also covers the cough they have been holding in, the shoe shuffles as people shift in their seats, etc.) One of my favourite memories is of a production of "Same Time, Next Year". We did the changes in full light, props and crew were dressed as hotel staff, a song that was relevant to the year the play had reached was played. It all worked and gave time for the two actors to do full changes including wigs. On a similar vein I recently saw a production of "Dangerous Liasions" where the crew were dressed in period and moved the furniture on the unit set to establish that we were now in a different scene. There were a couple of brief blackouts, mostly to permit actors to be revealed in position, and the whole thing flowed. It's not always appropriate to do this sort of thing but it's worth remembering. PS: Na, I dislike being asked to leave, but that's mostly because I'm nosy and want to see what they're doing. "Life is too short to stuff a mushroom"

I saw a show the other night, the length of which was increased by a full ten minutes, due to the three scene changes, each of which went for the entire length of a song. OK, there were costume changes happening as well, but precious little changed on the set. www.meltheco.org.au

That sucks...you were left sitting just listening, and for little reason....that's just not right. "Life is too short to stuff a mushroom"

Good topic, Gordon. Intervals are good. A lot of people go to the theatre as a social event, which should be encouraged, and an interval allows them to socialise while getting their drinks, etc. Also there are probably a lot of second acts which benefit from having a more relaxed audience after having stretched their legs, had a drink, had a chat, gone to the loo, etc. (And a lesser desired but also important factor is the opportunity to leave at interval without disrupting the performance! If your show is really not appealing to someone, better to let them sneak out at an interval than to force them to stay against their own judgement and have them end up totally resenting you!) The last professional show I went to (Deckchair Theatre) the audience was asked to remove to the foyer so the set could be changed. Happens fairly regularly in my experience, usually when the theatre has no other form of curtaining and they desire to set up something for dramatic reveal, and don't want to spoil the surprise. I personally prefer letting anybody who wishes to remain watch what goes on, but it's a matter of presentation. If you DO carry out set changes during an interval in view of an audience, then they ought to be presented like a performance...perhaps not to go so far as being choreographed (although it could be), but to display an atmosphere of precision and efficiency, with no actions that should NOT be seen. The only time I remember it being a safety thing to clear the audience was when an object needed to be reset to swing out on a line above the auditorium, hence needing ladder access between the seats. Every other time I'm pretty sure it was aesthetic (ie hiding an actor/object prior to the audience seeing it) The correct length for an interval is: long enough that people still feel entertained. Too short and they will feel rushed and not welcome. Too long and they will feel bored and not welcome. Obviously there may be a certain amount of set changing which will take some time...figure out how to make it more efficient; get extra hands if necessary, so that it takes no more than the good length of time for the audience. No point in stipulating a fixed number of minutes. A night with two short plays may have a 20 min interval and feel too long. At a night of Shakespeare in Kings Park where the toilets are a 400m walk away up a hill, with long queues, 20 min will feel too short. It will depend on the subject, style and pace of the play to determine whether the audience is raring to go or needs longer, or whether they are looking at their watches wishing it would start again so it will end sooner..! Often the actors themselves will need a break between acts, not just to change costume but to sustain the energy to continue at full pace. Too short and they may not have the stamina for act two, too long and voices & bodies cool down and lose their edge. Again, it's dependent on the type of show, and is a pacing element that ought to be worked out in rehearsal. Music is an extremely useful way to smooth over scene transitions. Nowadays you have no excuse not to be able to tailor-make a short piece of music to fit your transition...the tools for sound editing are readily available on any computer. (though I used to do it easily enough in the old days of cassettes, you don't need technical wizardry). A ten second gap can usually be improved with ten seconds of correctly chosen music. Music can lead out of one mood and into another, and can sustain the energy over any forced break in the action. It can comment upon the scene and add context and subtext. The idea of 'choreographing' a scene change can also be assisted by music, presenting a show of slick timing and efficiency. I TOTALLY AGREE with Robert J's first post about blackouts. HIs post was to the point and offered constructive suggestions. That someone got offended possibly reflects the dire need for his suggestions to be taken seriously! Every play/set/scene change is going to come with its own unique problems to solve, so it will be difficult to simply teach solutions in a workshop. But it's definitely an area where skills can be explored and an improved way of thinking can perhaps be learned. Scene transitions are a collaboration between the set designer and the director. It's the designer's job to create a set that achieves the aim of the play, including getting from scene to scene; and the director's job to implement the changes using cast and crew so it also serves the aim of the play. Blackouts are an archaic and boring way of achieving scene changes. I dislike blackouts in general, and they are my pet hate too if they become a production number in themselves, because usually I can see for myself that they are unnecessary if someone had only thought it through. Scene transitions are part of the play. They can be made into a feature (actors or techs in costume going about some business that suits the show and which happens to change the set moving us from one location to another) or, even better, incorporated into existing scenes. For instance, while an actor is finishing one speech, he has collected all the items that need to be removed. The next actor brings on what they need and sets it up while speaking their lines. Or the scene change goes on behind them while they are pulling focus and advancing the story. Lighting is obviously a good way to direct focus. Of course, many scene changes actually denote the passing of time, and there may be times when a blackout actually is the best way to convey this. But to my mind this is only effective in a filmic sense, when the scene fades to black and then fades straight back up again. Any time there is an elongated blackout I'm more inclined to think something has gone wrong. Snap blackouts, or clever use of lighting to hide and reveal elements of the set and play, are a valuable tool and not what I'm complaining about here...it's the tedious practice of finishing a scene, going to black or dim while a ninja-like band of mechs rearrange the props, letting the audience fidget for 30 seconds or more, then bringing the lights back up. It halts the action and draws attention to design inadequacies. I see far too many examples of this done poorly, and where I get annoyed because it seems obvious to me how it could have been done better if only someone had thought about it. Occasionally, a scene change is impressive by itself, in which case we want to draw the audience's focus to it and allow them to enjoy the transition. Other times they will enjoy it more if it has happened before they even realise it, right under their very noses. Or if a lot is seemingly accomplished, like magic, in the blink of an eye. This is an impressive blackout. Sometimes a good tension can be created by making some changes which keep the audience guessing until the final flourish when we suddenly realise what the stage has now become. But you should also consider whether the scene change even needs to occur in the first place! Nothing worse than taking 30 seconds to bring on a table, for instance, and another 30 to take it off, when I can imagine the scene working perfectly well either without it or if it had remained there the entire time! Or if a lot of effort goes into making changes that hardly seem worth it. I think too many directors think a SCENE change should not be SEEN, hence trying to black it out. Incorporated with thought and skill, scene changes can and should be an interesting and integral part of what makes a play entertaining to an audience. Cheers, Craig ~<8>-/====\---------

I'm performing in that very show and it's the most aggravating thing about it. It's a farce so the pace is killed irrevocably with these bloody songs playing in their entirety. On top of that I'm getting sick to death of the songs themselves. I know there are people who may enjoy tapping their toes to the music of their youth but seriously - buy the bloody CD and give the performers a break! Said my bit - feel better for it

You're beginning to display the Tact of Turnbull here... don't burn any bridges!! ;-)