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Is it an insult to be called a "ham"?

Tue, 28 Apr 2009, 06:05 pm
Pffft24 posts in thread
Am I over reacting? I've just completed a season of comedy/thriller "Tip Toe Through the Tombstones". I'm under no illusion that the play is anything but pure entertainment, the characters are one dimentional and were portrayed as such. We had full houses every night and lots of fantastic audience reaction and feedback. I've read 2 reviews by the same author. One was featured on this website (not sure if you can view it under reviews but it's called "ham_4_t"). The other mention of the play was in the Garrick Theatre newsletter. In both reviews he called the cast "hams". Some of his comments were very personal and 2 cast members were extremely insulted by them, however I'm not going into that. My beef (pun intended) lays with the fact that he called us "ham actors". Examples of his work are: "it had a cast of the hammiest actors every to grace the boards" "the overwhelming smell of pork in the air" "excessive ham acting on stage" "clearly put into perspective what it truly means to be a ham" Two online dictionary definitions for "ham actor" are: "An incompetent actor who over plays and is incapable of subtility. An over-actor" "An unskilled actor" Of course, he's entitled to his opinion and all reviews are subjective but why try to mask the fact that he hated the play and the acting by writing "I loved it". So, my question is.... is it an insult to be called a ham actor. I certainly feel insulted. Would you?

Thread (24 posts)

PffftTue, 28 Apr 2009, 06:05 pm
Am I over reacting? I've just completed a season of comedy/thriller "Tip Toe Through the Tombstones". I'm under no illusion that the play is anything but pure entertainment, the characters are one dimentional and were portrayed as such. We had full houses every night and lots of fantastic audience reaction and feedback. I've read 2 reviews by the same author. One was featured on this website (not sure if you can view it under reviews but it's called "ham_4_t"). The other mention of the play was in the Garrick Theatre newsletter. In both reviews he called the cast "hams". Some of his comments were very personal and 2 cast members were extremely insulted by them, however I'm not going into that. My beef (pun intended) lays with the fact that he called us "ham actors". Examples of his work are: "it had a cast of the hammiest actors every to grace the boards" "the overwhelming smell of pork in the air" "excessive ham acting on stage" "clearly put into perspective what it truly means to be a ham" Two online dictionary definitions for "ham actor" are: "An incompetent actor who over plays and is incapable of subtility. An over-actor" "An unskilled actor" Of course, he's entitled to his opinion and all reviews are subjective but why try to mask the fact that he hated the play and the acting by writing "I loved it". So, my question is.... is it an insult to be called a ham actor. I certainly feel insulted. Would you?
Tim ProsserTue, 28 Apr 2009, 06:25 pm

Well, I would certainly not

Well, I would certainly not like to be described as a ham actor, but at the same time must confess that I'm completely incapable of subtility while not having a clue what it means! I've not been able to find it in my Oxford English dictionary. Subtlety yes, subtility no. (Damn! I STILL don't know how to use those 'smileys'! One with a mischievous wink would be handy here.) Per Ardua Ad Astra
LabrugTue, 28 Apr 2009, 08:11 pm

Responsible - My Hand is up

I will take full responsibility for the postings as they are mine. I honestly did not intend offense in the comments. I did in fact mean to highlight the fact that the show did not hold back in its presentation of stereotypical characters and scenarios. The script itself called for this and as such the show was a wonderful pantomimic romp! I did love it and after some discussions with certain cast members, felt I was quite ‘safe’ in stating this fact. Obviously I was mistaken. :-(

I will humbly accept any insults that you or other cast members wish to throw my way and restate that I did not mean to offend. I acknowledge that the technical definition may be one of a negative nature yet I am familiar with a more light-hearted and complimentary interpretation of the term. I myself have been referred to as an “aging ham” and while the comment was given as negative feedback (by a questionable source) I personally believe that “Ham-acting” need not be a negative thing. There are occasions that call for Ham Acting and I see a vast difference between a ham actor and an actor being hammy.

I loved the show, indeed I did. I spoke personally to all the cast expressing this opinion. The review was supposed to be a light-hearted review of a wonderful show. If it continues to cause offense, I shall ask for its removal from this site and make a retraction where appropriate.

Absit invidia (and DFT :nono:)

Jeff Watkins

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Tim ProsserTue, 28 Apr 2009, 09:09 pm

Indeed Jeff, I think there

Indeed Jeff, I think there are certainly times when 'hamming it up' can be a lot of fun for both the actor and the audience. I haven't done pantomime (yet), but I've appeared in one or two of Johnny Grim's comedies where 'hamminess' is almost a necessity! I've never (thus far at least) been called a ham, but I was once described as 'cartoonish' in a review of a Johnny Grim play. It was intended as criticism, but since it was evident that the reviewer missed the point of the play's ridiculous premise, I took it as a back-handed compliment. It certainly didn't bother me or persuade me to tone my performance down at all. Although I unfortunately wasn't able to see 'Tiptoe Through The Tombstones', I did hear about it from others who did and, of course, I read your comments on it. I didn't think your observations were at all intended to cause offence and I would have thought it was patently obvious that references to ham acting were tongue-in-cheek and perfectly in context. As far as I can see, you have nothing to apologise for. So don't! If the play had been a serious drama, then that would have been different altogether. Suggestions of ham acting would indeed have been seen as offensive (certainly to those they were aimed at!), but even then I'm sure you would have exercised a little more tact in your choice of words . . . being the likeable fellow that you are, of course! Per Ardua Ad Astra
Greg RossTue, 28 Apr 2009, 11:11 pm

Swine Flu Hits The Web!

I was in "Tombstones" - it was pure Ham, BUT with a lot of thought, effort and meticulous rehearsal from some wonderful people ... and me. Sure, the term ‘Ham’  could be offensive in some circumstances - perhaps being labelled a "ham actor," in "The Merchant of Venice," or "Travelling North" etc, but in a mad farce such as "Tip Toe Through The Tombstones" it was pure ham, the more the merrier! 

I attempted to channel Terry Thomas for my role and used one prop (a monocle) outrageously, worse every night. I recall laughing like a drain with Jeff about it all after the show, vamping up the ham factor. Speaking of vamps, we had a few of those, thank Heavens!

I must admit that I'd been a little worried that some of my "serious theatre" friends wouldn't like it, however one of them told me that she still cherished memories of "Last Tango in Little Grimley" (in which I had a role at Stirling a few years back) and she loved "Tombstones." I was also concerned about the new lady in my life, who's German and a theatre buff. She loved it so much, she urged her daughter to attend. She did and consequently vowed she was smitten with community theatres (she'd seen "The Sum of Us" at the Old Mill last year, thought it was superb and now she'd seen community theatre "do comedy," declared she had no idea how vibrant, good and alive theatre was in Perth. She wants to get involved.

As for your review Jeff, you innocently and in the spirit if fun, did hurt a lovely person, which was very awkward for all of us.  It’s interesting, in that we all want to be told we played a character convincingly, but often we don’t want to be told we are that character, despite the fact that we all pull on our own experiences to flesh out a role. May I suggest that you don’t change anything on the website, but give me a call and I’ll let you know and I’m sure you’ll call the person concerned. 

As for you Gabe!!  … Maate! White suit and carnation! Thank God for the bloody oil stains on me jeans mate (yeah, the bloody Harley leaks), not to mention that words that Grim bastard puts in our mouths!

Greg Ross

Minister for Good Times

PffftWed, 29 Apr 2009, 10:34 am

Hamming it up

Hey Greg, Jeff didn't JUST offend one person with his comments.......you know there were a few either side of the mirror who were perplexed with his "humour" if you can call it that.
Lisa SkrypWed, 29 Apr 2009, 06:52 pm

humour doesn't always work in the written form

I'm disappointed that I did not get a chance to see Tiptoe, but I must say Labrug's review really made me want to go! Much the same as Johnny Grim's thread "Where at thou Devil's advocate and Walter Plunger" not long ago... I actually thought that Labrug must have been involved in the show & a humourous "review" was his way of promoting the show. I must say I did wonder a little at some of the comments but I thought it was all in good fun, & in keeping with what I thought the show was about. Shame if it did offend anyone; I guess that humour doesn't always work in the written form... There are a lot of derogatory terms that get reclaimed by the people they were originally meant to insult... for example, I might be quite happy to call MYSELF a ham (and I do), but YOU calling me a ham might be quite another thing! food for thought...
PffftThu, 30 Apr 2009, 10:14 am

Thanks Lisa

Hi, Thanks for your comments it's good to know someone else read the review and thought it was strange. You're right about being able to mock yourself but if someone else does it - what out!!
Robert WhyteThu, 30 Apr 2009, 12:56 pm

If you can't handle the heat..

Don't get up on stage.... period. Christ, if you get offended by that critique by misinterpretation which Jeff has had the decency to clarify was not meant to offend, but meant as tongue in cheek, you must have a severely thin skin....and a serious tumour in your humour. If all you want is sycophantic "you were wonderful" comments ask your family and friends, they will always comply....otherwise find another hobby. Ive been on the receiving end of some particularly scathing reviews that were nothing short of vitriolic, and shrug it off...at the end of the day I ask if I am happy with what I did and if the answer is yes, I get on with it, so someone wrote something about my performance I didnt like, BIG DEAL! We aren't movie stars on 6 figure salaries, so get over yourself. So...in answer to your question "Am I over reacting?" YES!YOU ARE! Seriously.... Toughen up Princess!
Lisa SkrypThu, 30 Apr 2009, 01:11 pm

I'm with Robert

If we open ourselves to reviews, we should be OPEN. Rarely does the critic love us as much as we love ourselves... And since we're all only as good as our last gig, best to just get on with the next one. I suppose all I meant in my post is that I actuallly didn't even realise Labrug's was a real review! (no offense to him either ;-) ) Mostly I was musing on how easily things can get misinterpreted. Once aware that that had happened, Labrug apologised immediately, explaining that he intended no harm. So that should really be it (& I'll butt out now, too).
jeffhansenThu, 30 Apr 2009, 01:16 pm

The limelight is not the

The limelight is not the place for the thinskinned....... I read Jeff's review and took into account the fact that he writers Garrick's newsletter. It seemed part review, part promo. Add to that the fact that he had recently been accused of hammy acting in R&J, meant that I certainly didn't think that the reference to ham was being derogatory. www.meltheco.org.au
Robert WhyteThu, 30 Apr 2009, 04:21 pm

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PffftThu, 30 Apr 2009, 04:55 pm

I think you've got the wrong idea

Robert, Robert, Robert, now I think you are over reacting. I certainly didn't ask Jeff to remove his post and when he kindly offered to I said there was no need at all. Jeff has emailed and apologised if he caused offence, something I didn't expect but that shows the high calibre of person he must be. Of course it wasn't an award winning show, I'm well aware of that and said so in my first blog and of course we put outselves up there for people to pass judgement (PS the reasons you outline are EXACTLY the reasons I don't ask family and friends to see the show - I HATE all that crap after the show when they feel they have to tell you the show was wonderful. I absolutely loathe it. I act for my own enjoyment. Robert, I merely asked the question who else would have thought it was an insult. That's all. Things seem to have blown out of proportion. I spose that's the risk you run when you blog.
Don CallisonThu, 30 Apr 2009, 09:07 pm

ham in context

Pffft quotes two online definitions of ham actors. "An incompotent actor who overacts ,is incapable of subtelty.an over actor." "An Unskilled actor" A perusal of the net and my oxford dictionary shows most of the definitions being along the lines of a sub standard actor who overacts.However traditional meaning and common usage aren't always the same and a perusal of reviews on the net shows that the term is quite often used differently. Many reviews contain sentences like "He hammed it up to the max,much to the delight of the audience"and"Delightful hammy over the top performances. In certain genre of film and theatre big is beautiful and expressions such as hamming it up ,going over the top,shamelessly overacting and chewing up the scenery are often used in a complimentary manner.In other genre they may be used as criticism Film reviewers have used these terms in a positive way to describe many a hollywood actor I have twice seen Jack Nicholson refered to as Jack the Ham. Often common usage and context rather than dictionary definition define whether or not an expression is derogitory. Given the nature of "Tip toe Through the Tombstones" I don't think the term "Ham acting" should be construed as a criticism
Robert WhyteThu, 30 Apr 2009, 09:46 pm

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LabrugThu, 30 Apr 2009, 10:14 pm

My reasons

Yes, I have removed the original review I posted. Yes, it was a personal decision based partly on the general feedback I have had regarding it. Its removal however was more driven by the fact that I have inadvertently highlighted aspects of an individual without being fully aware of certain details about said individual. As such, I drew attention to something that if I had known better I would have not raised comment on at all.

The knowledge of this has left me feeling a little ashamed of what I have written. I have already apologised for causing distress and extend this to incorporate that unfortunate aspect. For what it is worth, I plead ignorance.

I thank Pfft for their understanding and for giving me the chance to explain myself, and I thank everyone else for their support, saying but this - everyone is entitled to express their legitimate displeasure to another's commentary and should not automatically entitle them to a title of "Thin Skinned". Equally, complaints such as this are better expressed in such a way as to allow a dialogue to open, as this issue was ultimately raised.

I am trying to encourage my 7 year old daughter to express herself and not to bottle things up. I would be a hypocrypt in the extreme if I did not aknowledge this outside the family circle.

We are all capable of mistakes and I believe I have made one with this review. Equally, a mistake was made in the interpretation of my review as is all to easy to do. What makes the difference is the freedom to resolve those mistakes or to establish clarity.

Absit invidia (and DFT :nono:)

Jeff Watkins

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Robert WhyteFri, 1 May 2009, 06:54 am

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devils advocateFri, 1 May 2009, 10:21 am

Robert I do not see why you

Robert I do not see why you are getting so upset? Pffft is entitled to his opinion as are you. Its nonsense to keep quoting him and giving your little responses (loved it when you numbered your points). I would suggest you try and be more proactive with your time, do some work and keep your head out of the clouds, your confidence is clearly misplaced. Look forward to your reply, but lets keep it civil...maybe keep the blasphemy to a minimum?!!?
LogosFri, 1 May 2009, 10:25 am

DFT

Oh look who's back. When was the last time you made a positive comment Devils Advocate. Actually of course I'm not following my own suggestion. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au
devils advocateFri, 1 May 2009, 10:31 am

I love to make positive

I love to make positive comments believe it or not, I just find it really hard to look beyond the above comments...sorry
stingerFri, 1 May 2009, 02:43 pm

Hams Fly at Hammy Hill

I remember the late Alwyn Kurts (of 'Homicide' fame) once describing himself as "an old ham". While this was undoubtedly just a bit of self-deprecatory humour, such was my admiration for the man at the time that I ceased to think of the epithet as anything but complimentary. To my mind, the expression 'ham it up' is similar to 'camp it up' and is a skill any actor should have in his or her toolbox to be used as and when required. And for a really good demonstration of both, come and see 'Bannockburn! The (almost) True Story' currently running at Phoenix Theatre, corner of Carrington & Rock'n'ham Road Hammy Hill 6163 (UBD Map 346 J7) Ssstinger>>>
Walter PlingeFri, 1 May 2009, 07:40 pm

Pity I didn't get to read

Pity I didn't get to read the review or see the play. The comments make interesting reading. To my mind hamming it up is one thing and being a ham actor is another. I see the first as a style of acting and the latter as a criticism Devils Advocate I love your comments and agree totally.
Robert WhyteSun, 3 May 2009, 11:52 am

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devils advocateSun, 3 May 2009, 01:05 pm

did robert say no identity

did robert say no identity = no comment? is my identity so important to you?? why? do you want to catch up for coffee? im sorry robert, but i really dont see what that would offer you...after all whats in a name...? i will say robert you do ammuse me, i will definately give you that.
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