Royalties

Sun, 2 Dec 2007, 04:25 pm

Norma18 posts in thread

Am I imagining things or have the costs of rights gone up a 'considerable amount' recently??

We have just got the necessary forms for our first three seasons - 'we' being the Old Mill Theatre in South Perth - (an amateur theatre in case anyone reading this is unaware)

1. The Sum of US - $200 per performance

2. Dangerous Obsession - $190

3. Jakes Women - $250

This equates to a complete row of seats every performance just for the royalties.

We increased our ticket prices last year, partly to cope with rising costs and partly to cope with BOCs charges and hope we don't have to do the same for 2008.

On a related theme - why are people unwilling to pay for a programme?? (not everyone of course)

I have just done a full colour, 8 page A4 programme for a season. Simply to get it printed cost s around $2.20 per programme and that's not taking in to account the time taken to actually design and compose it in the first place - for which as a member of the theatre I don't charge. As anyone who produces theatre programmes will attest it isn't simply a matter of sitting at a computer and tossing them off in a few minutes!! To produce a quality programme takes several hours.

We have tried: a) charging $1 for an A5 B/W and $2 for a colour A4 (the latter recently caused us to have a lot left unsold!!)

and: b) saying "programme by donation please"

I still haven't decided which way is 'best' . The obvious alternative is to build the cost into the ticket, which will cause complaints about "getting too expensive these days"- And yes I have been on the receiving end of many such comments!!

I'm not actually seeking a solution- I don't think there is one- merely voicing thoughts.

Thread (18 posts)

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NormaSun, 2 Dec 2007, 04:25 pm

Am I imagining things or have the costs of rights gone up a 'considerable amount' recently??

We have just got the necessary forms for our first three seasons - 'we' being the Old Mill Theatre in South Perth - (an amateur theatre in case anyone reading this is unaware)

1. The Sum of US - $200 per performance

2. Dangerous Obsession - $190

3. Jakes Women - $250

This equates to a complete row of seats every performance just for the royalties.

We increased our ticket prices last year, partly to cope with rising costs and partly to cope with BOCs charges and hope we don't have to do the same for 2008.

On a related theme - why are people unwilling to pay for a programme?? (not everyone of course)

We have tried: a) charging $1 for an A5 B/W and $2 for a colour A4 (the latter recently caused us to have a lot left unsold!!)

and: b) saying "programme by donation please"

I'm not actually seeking a solution- I don't think there is one- merely voicing thoughts.

NaSun, 2 Dec 2007, 04:37 pm

I can't answer the

I can't answer the royalties, but on the question of paying for programmes: I think the biggest difficulty is that there isn't one system in use across theatres. You go to big professional shows and you have to pay $20 per programme; but some actually also offer limited B&W programmes in the foyer as well, for free. Other smaller venues or touring shows have programmes for free or donation. Others sell programmes at a couple of dollars each. Because there's no hard and fast rule to selling programmes, I think this instills a certain laziness on the part of the audience member: they don't feel the need to buy one, because they're not forced to at every show. There again, is another point: most people don't want programmes. Have you ever noticed the number of trashed programmes in foyers or seating? It's because people generally only want them if: the show is extremely memorable (not likely to be every show), there are great colour photos of amazing costumes, sets, or scenes (again, not every show), or they know someone in the cast. My last show I printed one programme for every seat, and handed them out for free. I think I found about half actually ended up back in my programme box, with several left lying in the venue. I don't know what the answer is - yes, programmes take a lot of time and money to make, so you want some sort of return on it. My best guess is to make something that costs as little as possible - I print from home. Amazingly enough a colour printer cartridge or two, and a ream of paper from Officeworks, is heaps cheaper than photocopying or hiring a printer. Then maybe charge a dollar or two - donations rarely work I think. Alternatively, you can do something else: make a programme that is as memorable as the show. I went to see an abstract puppetry performance, and the programme came with a set of collapsible binoculars; plus the programme itself was somewhat puppet-themed, with velcro-ed hands attached as a clasp. One show I did, we also had magnets on offer, and a lot of people took a brochure and a magnet, and left a donation - more because they were impressed with the handmade clay magnets, than the programme (the magnets cost very little to make, some spare clay, glue, and some old magnets). The real answer is though: no one really wants to buy a programme. They just want to read it before house lights go down or in interval, because there's not much else to do. Sticky Apple Legs www.thepromptcopy.com/sal Puppets in Melbourne www.puppetsinmelbourne.com.au My puppets www.collectzing.com/collection/137/

Don AllenSun, 2 Dec 2007, 05:25 pm

Don't loose sight of what

Don't loose sight of what the program is: * A recognition of everyone that has helped put the show together. * An opportunity for aspiring actors to be recognised by other directors and theatre critics * A sysnpsis of the show to give the audience an insight into what is about to occur, with the exception of murder mysteries as we don't want to know who did it too early. * Acknowlegment of your theatre sponsors and advertisers. * A historical record of yor theatres achivements - please put the year on your programmes I am sure these are dozen's of more reasons to produce a program, please feel free to add to the list. Seeing as we are talking amateur theatre where volunteers do so much, have a look at the cost of printing and you will find that laser printers are the cheapest and also best quality on plain A4. Look at getting a full duplex colour laser printer so your volunteers only have to fold the A4 pages in half for an A5 program. Perhaps look at printing only one week of programs a week if possible so you can recyle. You can run competitions in you programs to foster interest, maybe two drinks for the price of one after the show if they can answer a question about the play ? Keep thinking outside the box! And if you take an amteur production to a professional venue, please aknowledge the professional venue key staff.

NormaSun, 2 Dec 2007, 06:12 pm

Don't lose sight of what..

I agree Don with much of what you say. however I have no intention of actually printing all the programmes myself- I find that our current firm does a good job at a reasonable price - there is absolutely no way that I or anyone else in the theatre is going to do the 'donkey work' we have more than enough to do!!

I prepare the programmes because I LIKE doing it - not that it doesn't cause a degree of stress sometimes!! As I don't pretend to be a graphics designer it obviously takes me a lot longer that it would a professional! It's satisfying to see the finished product (and damned annoying to spot a mistake after going over it a thousand times beforehand)

It's also very satisfying to get the thanks from people involved in the show tho it doesn't happen that often! Notable exception: the one I have just done, the director said" thank you for the programme, it looks terrific" and just sometimes the audience comment on the 'lovely programme', but in general I think that most people just don't think of the work involved.

(Gets off soap-box)

LogosSun, 2 Dec 2007, 08:59 pm

With regard to your

With regard to your question about royalties. My answer is Yes. The major firms all seem to have upped the price recently. I was going to do two overseas plays this coming year we are now going to do a Shakespeare instead of one of them. Our other plays are all locally written and done on percentage of door. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Walter PlingeMon, 3 Dec 2007, 09:22 am

As a theatre, shouldn't the

As a theatre, shouldn't the committee investigate how much the royalties are (and how much the entire production will cost) before agreeing to put the said show on, to see if it's feasible in the first instance?

NormaMon, 3 Dec 2007, 10:39 am

As a Theatre, shouldn't the

Yes of course we do look at all probable costs first. However if one wishes to present a "modern" play then there is little choice but to pay the asked fee. I suppose we could re-invent ourselves as "the theatre who presents the old-time plays exclusively" thus avoiding any royalties at all but I don't think our audiences would be very impressed!!

Walter PlingeMon, 3 Dec 2007, 11:54 am

Royalties and programs.

Hi all, Ah, the costs of staging a theatre show... I would like to hope that any raise in the cost of royalties is reflective of the extra pay which playwrights are receiving. Hopefully our precious writers are benefitting somewhere. Programs. I guess there are a range of ways to cover this cost. Perhaps printing a small number of them and displaying a couple in the foyer would satisfy the requirement to acknowledge all involved in the production. If patrons wish to purchase one they can. Ironically enough, I have found that asking people for a gold coin donation often nets a bigger total than having an advertised asking price! I think that at community and amateur theatre level maybe we have to accept that programs are not quite the souvenir that a professional program is. A glossy $20 program with photo's of one's favourite professional actor is probably more desireable than a local theatre glossy with pix of everyone's friends and family!! Just a thought.... Tulipa.

Walter PlingeTue, 4 Dec 2007, 11:06 am

In regard to the royalties

In regard to the royalties question: looking at it from the writer's point of view. They derive income from this source. The cost of living is increasing with interest rate rises, rising petrol costs and so on. So in order to match those cost increases and be able to live in this fast-paced workaday world, the royalty fees are simply corresponding to other increases in prices across the board. And you don't have to do old-time plays exclusively... there are plenty of new plays out there also looking for an airing that wouldn't have such high fees.

LogosTue, 4 Dec 2007, 11:28 am

I would hope that you are

I would hope that you are right and the writers are receiving the increased amounts. There is however the point that a reduction in the number of people booking a play because of increased royalties may outway the increase in income? I have a number of plays of my own that are cheaper to hire than any of those figures quoted. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Walter PlingeTue, 4 Dec 2007, 04:40 pm

How would the audience know

How would the audience know anything about the amount paid for royalties? The majority of the audience don't even know where the money goes. They're the ones who always say "If the actors don't get paid, where does the money go?"

LogosWed, 5 Dec 2007, 07:54 am

You missed my point.

I shall rephrase: The reduction in the number of companies booking a show because of increased royalties may outweigh the increase in income to the agent and writer. The increase in these royalties is an indicator that amateur performances of plays is becoming a major part of playwrights income when it didn't used to be that important. This is an indicator that professional performances of new plays and indeed even recent plays is dropping. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Jodie HansenWed, 5 Dec 2007, 03:15 pm

Programmes

I went to the production of Paris recently and bought one of their excellent programmes. They charged $2 which is quite reasonable for it and it is probably the best community theatre programme that I have ever come across. Full colour, glossy, excellent photos and unbelievable price! Norma, what programme was it that you were referring to in your original post? I'll compare!

Gordon the OptomWed, 5 Dec 2007, 03:56 pm

programmes continued

            A good programme can give a professional touch to a show. I get most frustrated when there is no programme whatsoever. Ideally it should list all of the cast and techies, the acts, scenes and intervals – you would be amazed how few programmes give even basic information.
            Any photos should be big enough to see clearly. A programme recently had tiny colour photos of the cast printed on grey paper; these were even hard to see in daylight, and I doubt if the audience would recognise the cast again. A good idea but a waste of money.
            It is always fascinating to look back over the years and see who has been where and how they have progressed.
Keep the programme and charge a gold coin. I would much rather receive a subsidised programme than a glass of cheap sherry on arrival.
            Norma quotes some prices which I think are a little high, for example a WA company Printerfuel (08-9266-1044) do 2 sheets of A3 folded i.e. 8 sides of A4 with some colour for $1.50 (rather than $2.20) and the increasingly popular booklet scripts (in black ink only) of about 30 sides of A5 for around $3.20. I am not linked to this company, but I advise that you shop around.

Musically SavageThu, 6 Dec 2007, 12:38 am

programs

Such a bizarre reaction from people over programs. I like them. In Europe you'll pay $20 to $30 for them. I would here too. Well, maybe $20. But it's gotta be a good book with stuff that helps me to relive the show, albeit a compact version. Varekai (Cirque Du Soleil) was a cool almost graphic novel type program. Big enough for all the pics you wanna see, the credits which you enjoy, and an appropiate amount of pages at the back for sponsors etc... We've just got to keep educating folk to get them, but make them worth while!

... dance lightly my friend, but carry a big stick...

Luke

DazzaBFri, 7 Dec 2007, 12:37 pm

Good Programs

There's a few really important things to note on programs! Firstly, let's look at quality. You will always get the theatre goers (like me) who will grab a program whatever the quality, whatever the cost. I think it's a good thing to have as a memory of a show - I will (and often do) look through my programs and remember the show. I also like to know who did what for a show so that I can look out for specific people in adverts for future productions. Eg: I really like Paul Treasure's direction, so if he's directing a show I will do my best to go and check it out :) The other side of the coin though is those people who do not share my philosophy. They don't see the point of the program - it's just another expense. However, what I have seen in my time is that if the program looks slick and professional, people will buy it. If you go for colour, large photos, glossy pages and a decent thinkness people will buy them. At least that's what experience tells me. Every time I've done programs of that style I've sold out. Also I normally put a $5 (or more) price tag on them. This is actually another strategy for moving them. Put value on your work! if you undervalue it, people don't have the respect for it that they should. I see it all the time in my day job - if you offer things for free, people either take them for granted or don't value them. When I send out free tickets, my accompanying letter says "Please accept tickets TO THE VALUE OF $X" (without the capitals of course) rather than "Please accept 2 free tickets". This creates a stronger perception that people are getting more for their time. Don't underestimate the power of people's perceptions... Also, I think it's important to have someone specifically selling programs. If you just have them at a desk where people will need to take the initiative to come up and ask for one then they probably won't go. If you have someone going around asking people if they would like to buy one you're more likely to move them. It's the same principle that I used to live by when I worked in the retail industry: People are lazy, you HAVE to do part of the work for them - this means taking the product directly to them rather than expecting them to come seeking it out. I know that sounds cynical and (to a point) quite nasty, but experience tells me that it works. Anyways, that's what I have to say on the matter - as I've said before, Theatre is 50% art and 50% business - it's a sad reality, but we DO need to think from a business perspectvie a lot of the time. Darren

NaFri, 7 Dec 2007, 02:06 pm

"Also I normally put a $5

"Also I normally put a $5 (or more) price tag on them. This is actually another strategy for moving them. Put value on your work! if you undervalue it, people don't have the respect for it that they should.... Also, I think it's important to have someone specifically selling programs. If you just have them at a desk where people will need to take the initiative to come up and ask for one then they probably won't go. If you have someone going around asking people if they would like to buy one you're more likely to move them. " I hadn't thought of these two points before: you're right Darren, the higher price is more encouraging. Though people don't want to shell out $20 per programme, they will if it's a very nice looking one, and naturally if the price is lower, they will think it's of lesser quality (even if it's not). I also agree that having one person specifically to sell them makes it easier. I've had shows where we just had the programmes sit there, and of course, no one wanted one. Hand them out at the door as tickets are collected; everyone takes one. But have one person selling programmes, and they move a lot better. Some excellent points that I'll remember for my next show! Sticky Apple Legs www.thepromptcopy.com/sal Puppets in Melbourne www.puppetsinmelbourne.com.au My puppets www.collectzing.com/collection/137/

NormaFri, 7 Dec 2007, 04:29 pm

Also I normally put a $5...

"Have people actually go round and sell them" - hurrah at last someone agrees with me on this point. However it's easier said than done believe me at some venues. It's amazing to me that it is very difficult to get people to do the job, I have no idea why so many FOH people simply won't do it - WHY???? They'll sell raffle tickets but programmes????????

One of life's (probably) unsolvable mysteries.

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