Another Agency to Watch? Re: Dodgy Agencies.

Tue, 25 Sept 2007, 09:46 am

Labrug35 posts in thread

This was mailled to me although I believe the person actually meant to post a forum article instead. I repost here;

Subject: Dodgy Agencies
Date: Tue, 25/09/2007 - 07:13

Since were all discussing the topic of dodgy agenciesi. Brisbane is just as bad. I am with NATALIE HALL AGENCY. Supposedly they are the best, yet im really starting to wonder if they are, they send you out on jobs (no problem) but they take LOOOOOOOOOOONG to pay up to 6 MONTHS!! their main excuse is that the production companies they are dealing with have not paid them. I have been advised by MEAA that this is often an excuse to stretch payment. I often see other Natalie Hall Members when out on jobs and they often complain of the same thing. They demand you to be at the job pronto but yet when it comes to paying you, they all of a sudden dont want to know you. They dont charge you an upfront fee but the they take 20 percent commission plus ADMINISTRATION FEES! plus less tax ON EVERY JOB, so by the time you work it out its often not worth doing. Another thing this agency does is give different people different rates of payment. We all do the same job yet some people get paid less and others get paid more. They often change their rates of payment, i hear from other members that they do this if they think you are desperate to be on anything, they suss you out. Sometimes its $20 an hour sometimes its $40 an hour. I find them to be very tricky. Does anybody else have this problem? If so let me know on this forum.

My question is

1. Is this normal practice for Agencies?
2. How long does it take for Payment?
3. Do Production Companies REALLY delay paying Agencies hence they cannot pay you up to 6months?
4. What is the normal rate for extras work, feature work etc.?

Take Care Everyone!
she74

Thank you She74. Most agencies that I know of, try to do the best for their clients (you). Production companies do sometimes "stretch" things out. Sometimes their reasons are legit, sometimes not. Sometimes Agencies tend to drag things out also. The commission is to PAY for the administrative costs. I personally question this as an additional cost.

If this is a regular occurance, then I would tend to think that the agency itself is dragging their heels. If there are others that you know of making the same complaint, then maybe you should band together. If you are members of the MEAA, then as a group, you may be able to bring industrial action against the agency or production company. I would suggest getting further advice from them. They can only help you if you are members though.

Final option, if you are completely unhappy with you select agency, fire then. Get you money out of them and fine someone else. Remember, you are hiring the agency to find work for you.

As for what is the rates, check here - select the most appropriate area and read the PDF. This will give you minimum industry rates.

All the best - Jeff.

Thread (35 posts)

Threaded Flat

LabrugTue, 25 Sept 2007, 09:46 am

This was mailled to me although I believe the person actually meant to post a forum article instead. I repost here;

Subject: Dodgy Agencies
Date: Tue, 25/09/2007 - 07:13

My question is

Take Care Everyone!
she74

Final option, if you are completely unhappy with you select agency, fire then. Get you money out of them and fine someone else. Remember, you are hiring the agency to find work for you.

As for what is the rates, check here - select the most appropriate area and read the PDF. This will give you minimum industry rates.

All the best - Jeff.

NaTue, 25 Sept 2007, 10:08 am

I agree with everything

I agree with everything Labrug says: talk to MEAA about getting some action on payment. Rates will depend on what contracts people are on: casual once-off work may have a different rate to someone who is required for a series of TVCs over a period of 6 months... Check MEAA's rates page above for more info. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip My puppets www.collectzing.com/collection/137/

David GreenTue, 25 Sept 2007, 10:43 am

Hmmmm

Dear she74 As Laburg said...agents can take a long time to pay, the important thing is that you keep harassing them till they do pay up. It’s not that easy to ignore someone who rings up every second day asking for payment. I must admit that taking 20% commission is a lot compared to some agents. As far as I’m aware, the most an agent (for acting in Perth) takes is 10-15%. I may be wrong here and perhaps you should do some investigating from other agencies. The thing that stood up most is the amount of pay you are receiving. If you are being booked as an actor, you should be receiving ALOT more then $40 an hour. I’m sure the MEAA have specific details on costs but to be getting paid less then that, you can work in Woolworths and get more then $20 per hour for your time. From what you are saying this agent is getting you work, but you are asking whether they are taking you for a ride. My best advice is to talk to them professionally about it and if they do not give you a sufficient answer, walk away. If you are good at what you are doing, you will find other work :) Hope This Helps Keep Smiling :) David Green DRAGON FILMS www.davidgreenenterprises.com

LabrugTue, 25 Sept 2007, 11:03 am

Research

I have done a little research (what little I can from here) and have seen enough to make me think that NATALIE HALL AGENCY is more legit than many others. They do not appear to charge upfront fees, they do not force you into using a nominated photographer, they take commission charges that while at the top end of the scale, are within reasonable expectation.

The lag time in payment is a concern, but as suggested this could be Producer based, not agent. The rates are also a concern yet often these are dictated by the Production Company, not the agent.

Overall, I would say at this point that NATALIE HALL AGENCY is on the whole OK. Personally, I would like to hear other first hand accounts.

At the end of the day, an agent is not their job to do everything for you. They may offer you jobs that pay below standard because that is what is on offer, and it is up to you to say Yes or no. Be aware of your rights, research the MEAA, join the union, develop a contacts network with fellow actors and industry members, and be more selective in the work you do.

If you have issues with anything NATALIE HALL AGENCY does, then I would bring it up with them initially in a reasonable and professional manner. There maybe legitimate reasons after all. If you are not satisfied, then the MEAA.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director

Home Page
Yahoo Blog Page

janine34Wed, 3 Oct 2007, 09:18 pm

Try Talentbank

I have been with Talentbank for over two years and can recommend them. So far I have had 3 featured roles on TVCs and a number of extras gigs and the time it takes to get paid varies with each production. Why do people risk joining a new agency when it pops up when you have much more chance of getting work with an established talent agency like Talentbank. Website: http://www.talentbank.com.au

Walter PlingeThu, 4 Oct 2007, 04:14 pm

Natalie Hall Management

Just in regards to she74's email I wanted to give another first hand account of Natalie Hall Management. I personally have been with the agency for 8 years. I totally hear you in regards to payment taking a while but I can assure you that it is a result of not only the production companies but also the advertising companies and the above the line creative companies. It is a whole streamline efeect that unfortunately we are on the end of. In saying that though if the pay is done quick then you will get the money quickly. Natalie does pay runs fortnightly so if it comes in quick you'll be paid quick. I'm not sure how long you've been with Nat or how much work you've done but the more you do the more you'll see. In regards to taking 20% plus tax and admin fees; 20% is only taken on adds. TV and film is 10%. Tax has always been taken out of everyone of my pays and trust me, when you start earning big money you'll be glad because you don't want to get a massive bill!! On the whole I gotta say I would never be with any other agent. I've come from starting out doing the extra work for $20 an hour and have slowly moved my way up to being able to make a living out of solely acting. I've just finished an Australian feature and from there have started to get recognised from Syd and Melb casting agents for main roles in both TV and film. I can honestly say that if it wasn't for Natalie I wouldn't be where I am today. She has guided me through the minefield that is this industry and been the driving force behind my career to date. I can only hope as I look to move to the US that she will come with me as it is very hard to find tructworthy people in this indusrty, let alone people who care about you and what you do. I realise its hard starting out and there are some shit gigs but this is the industry. It gets harder and harder and unless you are lucky enough to have someone like Natalie on your side, as I have, the chances of making it are slim. If you aren't happy I suggest just talking to her. She is brutally honest (its kept my eating habbits in check) but this is what we need. If you aren'y happy i do think you should go somehwere else but make sure you are comfortable with that agency and make sure you can trust them.

Walter PlingeFri, 5 Oct 2007, 05:02 am

Agency complaints

If 'she74' is a genuine actor with Natalie Hall Management why didn't she take this up with NHM instead of airing her grievances here? Or is she a 'plant' from another agency? It's easy to slander agencies on this website: one of these days, someone's going to get sued over comments liek this.

NHM AgencyFri, 5 Oct 2007, 07:32 am

Natalie Hall Response to she74

Dear she74 One of my actors sent me your letter from the forum and I must say I am absolutely appalled that you have not contacted me personally if you are this unhappy with my agency!! I would be more than happy to arrange an appointment with you so that we can sit down and discuss your problems with my agency. Please let me know the job that you worked on that took 6 months to pay, I’m by no means saying that Advertising Agencies and Production Companies don’t take that long to pay, and yes generally it can take up to 3 months or sometimes it can even be the day after a job. What some of you do forget is that it’s both of us waiting for OUR money!!! But what you are insinuating, is that I have been paid by Advertising Agency or Production Company and that I have withheld your money. I would be more than happy to show you our Bank Statements to prove when we received the money for that particular job. When you sign up with us we give you an information sheet that lets you know when our pay days are, how we pay and it also states that “once we receive payment from the client, you will be paid.” Saying that “We demand you to be at a job pronto” well what can I say!!! Perhaps you are new to our industry and don’t fully understand that the advertising agencies and production companies â€“ your clients and mine, absolutely do in fact “DEMAND” us (both you and I) to be PROFESSIONALS and turn up on time with everything they have briefed us on. So I really don’t think that this should be an issue to anyone if they really want to work in this industry as professional actor or even as a professional background extra. The reason why Natalie Hall Management gets booked for jobs is because we have built our reputation in having PROFESSIONAL people, so the clients keep coming back time and time again!! Certainly if you are trying to get work as an actor or as a background extra surely this could only be a good thing â€“ being with an agency that has such high standards and gets you work??? When you say that we “don’t want to know you” when it comes to paying you…… if for some reason you have felt that from my staff or myself, I am truly sorry and you have my sincerest apologies!! I would hate for any of our artists to feel that way. In future please just give me call and let me know. I would like to point out that at times in our office it is extremely busy and I know that to some, we may seem to be short but it is not us being rude (I promise) it’s just that this industry is extremely last minute and everybody wants everything yesterday. As for Administration Fees: I have NEVER charged an administration fee!!! Again, please arrange a time to come in and meet with me or email, fax or phone me and show me the paperwork where I have charged an administration fee because in over 12 years of business I know I have never charged an administration fee. Now for the dreaded “T” word â€“ TAX!!!! This is one that you’ll have to take up with Mr. Howard or the AUSTRALIAN TAXATION OFFICE, not Natalie Hall Management. If you would like to take a look at the legislation regarding “Pay As You Go (PAYG) Withholding Guidelines for Performing Artists Agents, Advertising Agencies and Advertisers”, go to the Taxation Office link website the address is: www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.asp?doc=/content/20615.htm Regarding Rates of Pay: Each job can be a different rate of pay â€“ again, perhaps you are new to our industry and don’t fully understand yet the differences with each job. If you go to the Alliance website (www.alliance.org.au) you will find all the rates â€“ although they are only a guide. Most of the time the Advertising Agencies/Production Companies and or Casting Directors have predetermined the budgets, although where we can, we do try to negotiate a higher fee â€“ of course. As for Background Extra rates, our extras get paid MEAA award at the very least, but we do try our best to get more than the award. Normally the only way the rates would differ from time of booking, would be that they would be HIGHER (if upgraded) not lower. As I don’t know who you are or the job you are referring to when you state that you do the same job and some people get paid less and others get more â€“ I can’t comment, but again, give me a call and we can discuss it. As for us “sussing you out to see if you are desperate so that you will work on anything” well it hardly warrants a response…………. but I will…… Unfortunately our Film & TV industry here in Queensland doesn’t fully support the majority of actors to work fulltime as “Actors” (I wish it could) so a lot of our artists are “desperate” to get any sort of work to pay their bills, so they don’t have to do a fulltime “Normal” job and they can stay fully flexible to go to an audition, at a moments notice. But that does not mean we lower the rates of pay for them. Again if you are in doubt of the rate of pay, perhaps we could show you the booking confirmation from the client. You are always told, at time of booking, how much the job is worth. If the money is too low for you or you do not want the work, PLEASE just tell us and we will give it to one of our artists who are “DESPERATE” to work. There are hundreds of struggling actors that would love the work!! Most people complain that they don’t get work but obviously, you are getting work, so let’s just meet and sort out these issues and get back to doing what we do best, not sitting around wasting time. I pride myself on having a professional working relationship with both my clients and artists. And I am truly offended that you have not had the professionalism to come in and talk to me about your issues personally. Whenever I interview anybody to come on our books I always let them know that if they ever have a problem with my agency, my staff or myself, the first call they should make is to me (and you are all given my mobile number or if you don’t have it it’s easy enough to get) Hopefully I’ve answered all of your questions if not please feel free to give me a call or if anybody else has any problems with my agency please contact me at my office and we can have a chat about it. If you don’t feel you can talk to me and you think I’ve done the wrong thing by you please contact the Department of Industrial Relations on 07 3225 2069 or MEAA on 07 3846 0044. Thank you Natalie Hall

LabrugFri, 5 Oct 2007, 05:09 pm

Thank you Natalie

Thank you Natalie for your candid posting. I also would again restate my views that Natalie Hall is a legitimate and respectable agency. All my research has only convinced me that there is absolutely nothing underhanded or uncertain in the actions of NHM.

I feel confident in recommending their services to actors in the area.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director

Home Page
Yahoo Blog Page

Walter PlingeTue, 9 Oct 2007, 12:04 pm

Comment on Natalie Hall Response to she74

It is interesting that you have found the time to respond to what you clearly see as highly unjust and unfair comments by she74. This is just one negative comment. Why respond? Why not put your time and energy into building those professional working relationships, which you claim are so important to you? Could it be that you are perhaps not as approachable and open to contact and honest communication as you say? Seems you are not too busy to respond to one negative posting but when I emailed you directly to praise you for your work during the making of the Boots commercial on the Gold Coast recently, you could not even extend me the courtesy of a simple and quick reply. You even did yourself out of money because I told you in my email that I was interested in doing some of the courses you offer so that I might do more extra work in the future. I was one of those "volunteer extras" who answered your advertisement in the Sunday Mail. What a fool I made of myself! I was a complete newcomer when I turned up for the shoot on that very early morning on Wednesday 2 May 2007. The two days on the beach were great fun. No regrets there. What I do regret is filling out the tax declaration given to all volunteers on the second day. It was from that point on that my dealings with you went down hill. From receiving a Payment Summary from the production company before I had any idea of payment from you, to then having to chase payment up from one of your staff and only receiving it after I was told to send in a stamped, self-addressed envelope, to then not having a payment that matched the Payment Summary, the whole thing has been a complete joke. One of your staff continually used the excuse that "this is what this industry is like". I don’t believe it and it is a very poor excuse to hide behind. Potential newcomers like me are what keep an industry moving and if you were actually as open to discussion and contact as you claim to be on this forum, then you would not find yourself the topic of discussion in the first place. Unlike she74, I did make contact with you. It didn't get me far. But what I did do, as you so kindly suggest in your post, was tell following organisations about my experiences with your agency: Department of Employment and Industrial Relations (DEIR) Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance (MEAA) Australian Taxation Office (ATO) the production company involved What a score the Boots commercial was - a small Qld company winning the contract over a cheaper location/company overseas perhaps. Great news for everyone involved. Shame you had to use and abuse exactly those people who answered your ads and came willingly to your aid. You could not have made the ad without the help of all the volunteers sitting on the beach. I’m very glad I’m not one of those people hoping to making their life and living out of your industry. It's easier to respond to negative comments than put the effort into building relationships in the first place. Seems there are always more sides to every story. And I bet there are plenty of others from the Boots shoot who are none too pleased with you either.

Janine MenzTue, 9 Oct 2007, 01:36 pm

Time it takes to Pay

I am amazed that entertainers are not paid within a fortnight of doing a job. When you work for someone, say a hotel venue, coles, myer, mcdonalds, you are paid a weekly wage unless your on salary whereby you are paid monthly. Alot of actors/singers/dancer have a casual job to subsidise their potential career. If you have a week or two off to do an acting job, that can mean 2 weeks of no or very little pay from your casual employer. How is anyone to survive.You rely on the pay from your agency. It appears a number of talent and modelling agencies run the same way, paying on average 60 to 90 days. A friends daughter in Melbourne waits 6 months for pay by her modelling agency. She gets told, this is normal.... its the industry. This is ridiculous. Can you imagine if this were the policy for every business. How many people would be screaming. Agencies should pay within 30 days at least, if not they shouldnt be operating. The most important thing is to pay your employees first. If you have a viable business that the bank can see had growth potential, they will loan money to cover such things as wages. I am speaking on the industry in general and not about the agency mentioned in this thread. I have no idea who they are or how they run. Maybe the MEAA can help out but it is just ludicrous that this occurs only too often and believe me I know.

NaTue, 9 Oct 2007, 02:13 pm

I hate to disagree - yes,

I hate to disagree - yes, of course, no one should be paid after a long amount of time. But the fact of the matter is this industry IS different. In other businesses, they can produce something and then sell it - each product is priced according to the cost of making it. But a film, performance, or TV show (even modelling) does not work work that way. You must first make the product, then hope someone buys it. You can not predict how much money you will make, nor if you will be able to make back the money you spent making it in the first place. Think of it as selling a product on commission - like in the real estate business. You only get paid once you sell the property - because otherwise your employer (the estate agency) does not earn the money to pay you. I don't believe it's a good thing, nor am I promoting or advocating it, but what you have to understand is that sometimes, yes... people have to get paid before they can pay their actors/models. And that can take time. It's not about paying themselves first, or paying their bills first, or paying their employees first - it's about selling their product first, in order to do all those other things. I 'hire' people in for theatre performances on the basis of 'profit-share'; people know that they will be committing time and resources to a show that a) might not make money, and b) might make money, but not enough to pay them for their time. This is an understood agreement, and actors don't harass me for payment, because they know that I often have to receive payment from my bookings agent, and then balance the books. That can take up to a month, while the bookings agent balances their books, and then passes on my money. I'm just saying, there's a lot of processes involved in obtaining your earnings, and sometimes it can be a while before you see it. I think actually, the issue is not just that it takes a while, but that there is a clear case of not communicating what's happening with people's pay and why it's taking so long. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip My puppets www.collectzing.com/collection/137/

LabrugTue, 9 Oct 2007, 02:21 pm

Sad Truth

Sadly it is true and more often than not completely out of the control of the Agent. Often, payments are distributed by the production company at the end of production. A final sign-off if you like. It is certainly far from ideal but any legitimate agency will ensure that clients are paid as soon as possible once they themselves have recevied payment.

The agent does not employ you as such and so they do not have salary cash ready and waiting. They find you the work and then are themselves paid by the production companies via the commision they take for find you the work.

When you work for a hotel, Coles, etc... you are working for them, directly. An agent is not responsible for your payment as you do not work for them as such. Their responsability is to help you find work, which is why we call them agents and not employers.

Think of the analogy of a contract worker (say a computer trainer) working for a Training Agency. I use this as I was once one myself. It is exactly the same as an actor with a casting agent. You are a team who should get paid by the same people at the same time.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director

Home Page
Yahoo Blog Page

Walter PlingeTue, 9 Oct 2007, 03:03 pm

Communication - exactly!

Of course everything takes time and there is no doubt that there are many processes involved. Maybe all this is the sad truth about this industry. However, it surely isn't too much to ask to simply be kept informed. That's all that most reasonable people ask for and when not even that courtesy is extended to them, especially about something so emotive as getting paid, no wonder people get p*ssed off. It really isn't that hard to conduct yourself and your business in a fair, reasonable and professional manner, no matter the industry.

Neville TalbotWed, 10 Oct 2007, 12:13 am

I'm sorry to disagree

Regardless of the industry you are in, if you have turned up and done your job, you should be paid. Promptly. I completely and utterly refute this position that you must wait to 'sell' the product. You have contracted to employ someone to do their job...they do their job. You should have budgeted that that money is going to be an outgoing BEFORE you finish/sell your product. I am sure that Peter Jackson did not remain completely unpaid for work on LOTR until after the entire project was completed. Whilst some (prob a lot of it) was coming upon completion, I'm sure there was money paid up front or ongoingly. This is a much larger figure than the pittance most actors are supposed to be paid. The amounts involved in most gigs are far too small for this to count. Most companies we are talking about are large corporates with plenty in the bank to cover their expenses. The number of corporate gigs I do where the client attempts to prolong or delay payment are insane. I am now simply in the habit of giving them a clear 2 weeks payment period on an invoice, then I start sending late notices. Within a month I am charging late fees. Until we all start doing this we will continue to be treated like s--t, and frankly I am sick of it. Aren't you guys?! Will your builder turn up and start building your wall if you don't pay something up front, even if it's just for the materials (which by the way will have been paid for up front as well)? How many of you have to pay your doctor/dentist/(insert professional here) on the day of your appointment or be charged extra? Maybe if the agencies were genuine about serving their clients (the actors/models etc.), they would begin to grow some b'''s and start charging the client's late fees which they could then pass onto their actors/models (with their extra cut too- see we all win!)? The fact is that it isn't acceptable elsewhere, and I have never seen a credible reason or argument for it being different in this industry. Maybe agents could carry a line of credit to cover paying their artists, and charge the client any extra interest costs incurred if they don't meet their payment terms? If they were interested in serving the artists at all (apparently a major part of their job) they would simply take responsibility for this and us artists would not even be aware there were difficulties in getting the money. Frankly, it isn't my problem if the agent hasn't got the money yet- I did the bl'''y job! Of course- I am NOT talking about when we do our own shows/productions and where perhaps you are going to have to wait for box office for your share (if any) or similar projects. This is a completely different scenario, and as stated in the above comment, usually we all know what's going on, and we're less p....d off about it. I know I get really angry when I get to do something for one of the major 4 banks, do my job (well), and watch the guests of the bank at this event knock back $100+ per head dinners and sit in rooms that costs thousands to set up, and know that not only will I be clearly the last person to get his money, but that it will also likely take at least another 6-8 weeks. I know this same bank doesn't hesitate to charge me my monthly account fee, whether I can afford it or not! The more you settle for good enough, the less 'good enough' it gets. Anyways, rant finished (sort of!) Nev It's the simple things stupid...

LogosWed, 10 Oct 2007, 07:40 am

I agree, there is no reason

I agree, there is no reason at all why it should take so long. I am currently waiting for payment for an ad I did in early September. The ad started showing on TV over two weeks ago. I am sure that the TV stations have already been paid. My agent tells me they have not yet received payment from the production company. I can do nothing but wait. If I kick up too much of a stink I may not get called again, we live in an overpopulated industry. The MEAA says you should be paid within a week, yeah, that's gonna happen. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

LabrugWed, 10 Oct 2007, 09:07 am

Concord

Neville and Logos, what can I say. I agree with your arguments. It should not take so long. The sad thing is, is that our prefered industry is far to vague and ambiguous, and that is a seriously slanted advantage for the production companies who can claim all sorts of nonsense and reasons for delayed payments.

It is simply another reason to strongly consider joining the Equity Union and help bolster the strength of that organisation that they may then be able to "do something." As has been demonstrated time and time again, a united front can make large waves.

The problem is that so many people, young, hopeful, stars in their eyes, completely inexperienced in the way the industry works, can and do get taken for a ride as such. While there are so many "hopefuls", then the industry can afford to play hard-ball with the struggling talent.

One thing I can definately credit the ITA Forum for is as another medium (and a powerful one at that if not THE most powerful in Aus) for developing the understanding and experience needed for all performers to be able to make valued judgements in their careers. We can only but continue to guide those less experienced towards making smarter choices, and creating a stronger united front.

The results of the current forum are a little concerning considering the number of people who would not consider Union Membership. Without strong representation in such a volatile industry, you are vulnerable. I am not a union member for my full-time job as a public servant mainly because there is little need for me to be so. The Union has a strong and well established workforce behind them. The MEAA/Equity works in a completely different world and they need your support as much as you need theirs.

These are simply my personal thoughts. While I am not a representative of the MEAA/Equity, you could be forgiven for thinking so.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director

Home Page
Yahoo Blog Page

NaWed, 10 Oct 2007, 09:16 am

An interesting idea -

An interesting idea - charging interest. I've never thought of that before. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip My puppets www.collectzing.com/collection/137/

NaWed, 10 Oct 2007, 09:22 am

I think it's always

I think it's always beneficial for new and emerging artists to learn about contracts, especially for profit-share, etc. And to ensure that whatever the agreement is, there is a clear understanding of: *when do I get paid *how much do I get paid (ie. fee or percentage or by hour) *how will I get paid (ie. direct deposit, cheque, cash) *any other fringe benefits *will I be covered for public liability and personal insurance... etc. I do this as much as possible when getting actors involved in my shows. I always try to explain as much of the detail to them, because that way, we all know exactly where we stand and there is no ambiguity later on. And I try and precisely write it in an email to them too, so they have a written copy of what we agree on. I think the clearer the communication initially, the less likely people feel stuffed around later on. But yes, joining MEAA helps too! :) Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip My puppets www.collectzing.com/collection/137/

LabrugWed, 10 Oct 2007, 09:30 am

Inflation

Makes good financial sense - Interest to keep up with inflation. Hey, I could get to really like this idea.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director

Home Page
Yahoo Blog Page

LogosWed, 10 Oct 2007, 10:01 am

Both Neville (Based on his

Both Neville (Based on his previous comments) and I are members of the MEAA and I think you will find that they are effectively powerless in this situation as there is no legislative statement regarding the priod of time for payment. I believe QLD may have some legislation inthis area but no-one else does. I suspect that the "real" performers are paid more promptly than myself (I am an extra) and this too is unfair. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

LabrugWed, 10 Oct 2007, 10:31 am

Pointed fact

My point entirely. MEAA Effectively powerless. Yet other union structures are far from powerless. One line of thought (and one that I tend to strongly agree) is the amount of representation is extreme and opposite. Interestingly enough, there are thousands of actors, performers, etc. Yet their equivalent representation with the respective union does not match.

There has been a recent change in that regard and the Equity Union strength is building, slowly. The union has also been the driving force behind several recent legislative reviews. As their strength gathers further, I fell sure that they will be able to address some of the finer details such as payment deadlines.

Then again, I could be suffering from wishful thinking...

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director

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Musically SavageThu, 25 Oct 2007, 10:40 pm

Knowledge is the key

Knowledge is the key guys. I must admit, I am too am a member of MEAA. (This is a good thing) I became a member of the muso union when I moved to Perth in 93/94 essentially to learn the inner-workings of the local industry and gain the benefits of them helping me out if situations got sticky. Melding with MEAA a few years back helped too. I don't think there is another industry that is completely grey with legislation. Getting enough work certainly helps. Today's bills are being paid for by work completed one or more months ago. You just need to establish a cash flow. I like giving 2 wks on some invoices to students (especially the Barrister just for kicks) And charge for <24hr cancellation notice. They write interesting notes but they still pay. :-) It's all a matter of educating those we think we can get away with and increasing the general awareness of the working community. Chipping away at the old block. I consider it a personal duty to educate the youth and businesses to value the performer. Within my circles of influence I'm winning. I could move to Ireland though. Artists income is Taxfree. The govt. there realize what it needs to grow. We all need to take the risk where we can to press the need to be treated decently. It's 101 business skills. Luke ...infection risk...

she74Thu, 1 Nov 2007, 01:46 pm

Wow! Excellent Feedbacks

I never thought anyone would be giving this a second glance. At the time I wrote the email, it was in desperate frustration...the good old saying i hate shit i cant figure out... It is obviously a big problem out there in the industry. i have done jobs where i have been paid within a week of doing the actual commercial. i dont totally buy the payment excuse. As for Natalie Halls response I did make contact but you always seem to be in a hurry to get off the phone. and you can only ring so many times for crying out loud... besides why do we have to call to get our pay. as actors we turn up to every job you give us like professionals always on time and never any hassles. shouldnt you be the same of all the lease our pay. isnt that what a professional agency is all about i also did the Boots Job 3 days of it and followed every single instruction I was told to do in the good old hot sun like a professional, this mind you as a volunteer without pay for the love of acting. and yet all i hear at the actual job was how much other natalie hall extras were getting paid to be at the job. maybe you should have the same consistent rule for everybody. so people dont question you. if theres one thing my comment has done, it has gotten everyone talking about this shitty yet we all adored industry. all actors have told me that you just have to be greatful for anything that comes along and this i see is the big problem, agencies knows this and some do exploit it even the reputable ones. anyway i have followed someones advise and i have got a different agent now. feedback on this site is excellent. anyone for kubler.

Walter PlingeTue, 6 Nov 2007, 06:41 pm

Good luck she74

Good to hear you've moved on to another agency and that things are going well for you. For me, the Boots commercial was a bit of fun, a chance to do something new and completely different. But after my experiences with Natalia Hall Management, I'm glad I make my living elsewhere. Nice money earner for them though: For two long days of work, I received $250, less $50 tax, less $50 management fee, less $5 GST, leaving a total of $145. The payment summary from the production company did not match the eventual payment, which I received only after I was told I had to send in a stamped self-addressed envelope first. The most laughable part was the $50 management fee - management of what?! I was a volunteer, albeit a foolish one. The amount of hassle I had to go through chasing things up and sorting things out was not even close to being worth the money. Silly me for filling out the tax declaration. I should have just had my two fun days on the beach, end of story. We live and learn. Best of luck, hey.

Walter PlingeThu, 8 Nov 2007, 11:54 am

Continual unfair unjust postings

This website must have actors that have no work, as I have never seen so many negative critical postings in all my life. And although this is a theatre site, do you all have to be so dramatic. This site continually rips legimate businesses to pieces. The companies area then advised by associates and clients, and then feel they need to repond to clear their name. I know this website is self run and not policed but professional companies will be hesitant to post their casting calls for fear of the same unfair and unjust criticism and you will end up with only community theatre which is unpaid. Go and find some work for goodness sake and stop spending your time bitching about agents or other websites, if it wasnt for them you wouldnt get any good work. Actors have no idea how much work goes into chasing up castings and the actors may not even get a role, and then the agency doesnt get paid for the hours and hours of organizing the job. Maybe the people who are behind this website might like to have a think about the regulars that stir the pot and encourage this sort of negative totally unproductive behaviour. I have heard nothing but praise for Natalie Hall and her agency from actors who are landing great jobs with her on big studio feature films, and getting paid. Go and find some work, there is plenty out there, then you will be too busy performing to be spending your time giving agents a bad rap. Post about what a fantastic audition you had or what inspired you or what fantastic classes or performances you've been to. That would be must more inspirational that this nonscense, otherwise you will find that someone will seek legal advice due to the defaming posts. Ive done this anonymously as I dont want my company ripped to pieces, I was going to post a casting call but have been put off by all this. Why do we have to have the tall poppy syndrome all the time.

LogosThu, 8 Nov 2007, 12:31 pm

I do agree with a lot of

I do agree with a lot of what you say. There are far too many posts that verge on libel on some of these threads. However I challenge your repeated "Go and find some work." There is not "plenty out there" as you say otherwise we wouldn't need agents to help us find it. Most agents are reliable and trustworthy my only complaint is waiting up to 2 months to be paid. I suspect that someone is making money somewhere along the line by keeping the bulk payment in a holding account. Also this site is not really designed to be a site for posting professional casting calls. It is actually designed to be a site for community theatre. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Walter PlingeThu, 8 Nov 2007, 12:46 pm

Maybe 'cos us actors kept

Maybe 'cos us actors kept getting ripped off?

NaThu, 8 Nov 2007, 12:59 pm

Shocked visitor might like

Shocked visitor might like to know that: While this site is run by an amateur theatre organisation, many regulars and visitors will be professional theatre workers; and that simply because they post here does not mean they do not receive work or that they have nothing better to do. The site admin has a policy of free speech, but does and has removed posts if they are informed of libel or slanderous comments. That many of our posts are designed to inform the naive and young, and are critical only when we consider something suspicious based on an informed history in theatre (both pro and am). That we provide many other threads and posts which cover agents, and what to do and what to know That many of the people here are members of MEAA, and heed MEAA's opinions and advice That as you can see on the left, this site is one of the top sites for theatre in Australia, and this thread will not stop people from posting professional casting calls. But as Logos notes, it is aimed at community theatre. That agents and other representatives are welcome to post rebuttals in a considerate and calm manner, and indeed, we wish we heard more from those people. And lastly, that many of the good, complimentary threads, get lost in the controversy of the many 'bad' agency threads. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip My puppets www.collectzing.com/collection/137/

Walter PlingeThu, 8 Nov 2007, 04:49 pm

Why so shocked?

Why so shocked? It's hardly surprising that you've heard "nothing but praise" from those people getting big jobs and perhaps, big money. And that's great for them, the agency and the Australian industry. But there are other experiences out there too and this is what's being voiced here. It's not all sweetness and light and there is always more than one story. Just because you have heard nothing but praise, does not mean that the conduct of agencies is always professional, ethical or decent. My experiences did start out as fantastic and did inspire me, and this is from someone not even in this industry. I do believe praise and thanks to be very important and more powerful than complaining so I took the time to give that praise and thanks, and to express interest in further involvement in extra work. Not even a simple acknowledgement was forthcoming. I'd have thought a reliable and interested extra is always handy to have on the books?! And I'm about as far away from a time-consuming wannabe as you can get so anything that an agency did for me as an extra wouldn't require much work on their behalf. Don't we all just want to be treated with some respect and fairness and to be kept informed of things that concern us? Don't you? Taking responsibility for your conduct and maintaining good relationships with different groups seems to get lost so easily these days. It's not about being reactive when a situation arises. A bit more time spent being proactive goes a long way. And so does basic courtesy. As for being "put off", you're not the only one.

Walter PlingeThu, 8 Nov 2007, 08:41 pm

I am waiting for $2478.00

I am waiting for $2478.00 for a 2 jobs in June, $ 3500 for July and $1275 for August. I was advised and promised verbally payment would be in the next couple of week.Sure As Na put in an earlier post I was more than clear on all aspect of the job, entitlements, payments etc however I am still waiting despite numerous calls weekly only to be told as most of you say 'its the industry' we too are waiting for money Most auditions you cant go to without an agent then most clients are not good payers cos they dont have to be. 'its the industry' so they drag it out - they have other bills to pay first. Ive heard it all. If you do a job you should get paid within 30 days at least. No union will back me up its crap. So why are we in this industry again - oh yes we love it- I love what I do but no wonder I go hungry and cant pay rent. But who cares, its what i chose to do. Dont get me wrong I get heaps of work in the industry just dont get paid for it. My bad luck along with all the other struggling actors- but not struggling through lack of work- struggling because of slack ass clients

NaThu, 8 Nov 2007, 09:08 pm

"No union will back me up"

"No union will back me up" - I hope you're not referring to MEAA. Their entire role is to deal with things like this. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip My puppets www.collectzing.com/collection/137/

Musically SavageTue, 20 Nov 2007, 12:20 am

Union Help

Could be wrong on this one but last time I had to use the union in such a case as getting paid they were able to buy the debt off me (Give me the $ & thereby transfer the debt to themselves)and inform the client that the money was now owed to them... how far would they like to take it... That was when the Muso Union was solo, just before they merged with MEAA. ... gotta keep dancing somehow... Luke

James McDonaldThu, 22 Nov 2007, 09:46 pm

Yellow rose wrote: "Nice

Yellow rose wrote: "Nice money earner for them though: For two long days of work, I received $250, less $50 tax, less $50 management fee, less $5 GST, leaving a total of $145. The payment summary from the production company did not match the eventual payment, which I received only after I was told I had to send in a stamped self-addressed envelope first. The most laughable part was the $50 management fee - management of what?!" What are you complaining about? If you're with the agency you have signed a contract where 20% commission is charged for TVCs - there's your 50 bucks. Did you get this job through another agency? No it was NHM, so what's your complaint about having the commission taken out? You wouldn't have got the job at all otherwise. Everyone pays tax and GST, so what's your beef with the agency? You didn't have to take the job and NHM made the situation quite clear beforehand [they sent it to me too although I have another agent, so I know the case]. Get a life and stop whining. This is just a whinge and reflects not at all on the agency but on the complainer.

Walter PlingeSat, 24 Nov 2007, 01:45 pm

James McDonald wrote...

Hi James, thanks for your response. I've said all along that it was my own fault for signing the tax dec. I should have remained the volunteer that I was when I answered the ad in the paper. I know that. But nobody was told anything during those two days. NHM was all over the place, struggling to cope with something they apparently do for a living. I'd never done something like this before, I was completely new. The amount of chasing and bullsh*t that followed those two days is not something you would have enjoyed either. My "beef" is with NHM's conduct and lack of professionalism and integrity. It really doesn't take that much to keep people informed. And my guess is that you like to know what's going on, just like me. It's good to hear your views, it is a discussion forum after all. Good luck with things in this industry.

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