certain ass face directors

when certain people audition for certain plays and they are not cast they still expect to receive a courtesy call from the director. manners go a long way, especially for super sensitive and shaky performers

I would like to say that when certain people audition for a play and accept the part and attend the play reading later, that it is also bad manners to ring the director some two weeks later and say they have been given a part in another play and would like to be released to take the other part. Not on as far as I am concerned and his name will remain on our theatre files as having done this.
Consequently I am now one male actor short for HERE UNDER HEAVEN at Melville Theatre, performances in June. He needs to be about 27 - 30 yrs of age. It is an Australian play. Can anyone help please. My phone No. 9417 2801
Brenda StanleyA

Brenda Stanley wrote:
-------------------------------
I would like to say that when certain people audition for a play and accept the part and attend the play reading later, that it is also bad manners to ring the director some two weeks later and say they have been given a part in another play and would like to be released to take the other part

I would recommend getting the thoughts of the director of "Oleanna" on this one. There are occasionally mitigating circumstances (career opportunities, deaths of family members, etc etc ) that would surely preclude sending said actor to the gulags- sure, this case may just be bad manners; however you did cast him for a reason- obviously this actor was very good.

Yours advocating all things devillish,

Eliot

Unfortunately this has less to do with manners and more to do with expediency.

After having auditioned 50 actors for 8 roles a director's mind quickly moves on to positioning the chosen few into production mode and not making 42 phone calls to explain the casting decision to 'super sensitive and shaky actors'. Not unmannerly - just realisitic.

Al Pacino referres to auditions as "crap shoots" quite apt - the winner goes home happy but no one is going to hang around to explain why everyone else lost. It's just the way the game goes.

"I'll let you know" is actually short hand for "I'll let you know if you get IN"

I am sure I have been guilty of this in the past and probably will be in the future - but I don't think I'm going to lose sleep over it...

Well I believe that is the wrong attitude to take. People are good enough to give their time to audition so it really is appropriate to call all people back.
I am not involved in Theatre but I am an employer of people and I would never consider not calling each individual that applied for a job in my business.

But you know what they say Malcolm what comes around goes around .

I agree. I think not calling people isn't a matter of lack of time or concentration, it's just uncomforable and directors will find any excuse not to do it. (I overcame this hurdle through the power of delegation, Thank-you forever Mr Mike!!)

But people deserve to know. The feeling of really wanting a part and waiting and waiting and the slow dawning of realisation that you probably didn't get it is painful and humiliating. It makes you not want to audition ever again. You think "I must really suck, I wasn't even good enough for a phone call. They probably threw my audition sheet in the bin as soon as I walked out the door."

I think it is immesuarably arrogant to think that your precious show is more important than people's feelings. You should feel privillaged that people liked the concept of your show, or had heard enough good things about you to give up their time, their preparation and overcome their nerves to audition for you. We are supposed to support each other in this industry, and that includes giving 30 seconds of your time, and a modecum of respect to the unsucessful auditionees.

Having also had this experience I would never delegate the nasty task of the "Thanks but no Thanks" again. I have more compassion now.

Hi All,

I'm inclined to see Jackie's point on this more clearly than yours, Malcolm...and I find your view, frankly, disheartening.

As you know, I have directed in the past and I would regularly get 30-50 people at an audition, usually through my best efforts.

I have *always* seen it as demoralising, discounting and *extremely* discourteous to not let everybody know what their status was (or wasn't) in a production of mine.

I think this point comes down, in a sense, to personal responsibility. I *always* feel responsible for any person or group who have put a measure of their future fulfillment in my hands. The very least I can do is to notify them, ASAP.

If a director doesn't care enough to notify unsuccessful actors of their failure to secure a place in their production, or about the fact that an actor has put themselves out (and on the line) to show you something of themselves, perhaps that director should find some other (non-group) way to express themselves. I believe they should be looking very strongly at their ultimate reasons for wanting to direct actors at all.

Let's face it; whichever permutation of the theatrical arts you wish to practice (be it method, Stansislavsky, Meyerholdian biomechanics, etc.) it *ALL* comes down to dealing with groups at some level...firstly, a group of actors and finally a group of spectators.

I think a simple recognition of that fact is all that is required to focus our priorities in creating theatre.

Kindest Regards
Jason

This particular actor accepted the part, apparantly willingly, came to the first reading then decided the second audition which he had attended gave him a better part.
I know that "manners' seem to be out of date these days but as someone else has just remarked on this site 'what goes around comes around'

Malcolm,

Why not send a letter or an email? If a standard letter is prepared, all you have to do is sign and send. Some may see this as an easy way out but it sure beats finding out on the grapevine.

Hi Leah

> We are supposed to support each other in this industry, and
> that includes giving 30 seconds of your time, and a modicum
> of respect to the unsucessful auditionees.

Putting on my "feeling a trifle hypocrtical" hat i'd like to applaud Leah's, Jackie's and Jason's sentiments.

I'm guilty of not always making personal contact with every single person that auditions. Sometimes it really does take just a bit more than 30 secs. It's fun for instance tracking down people who write the wrong phone number on their audition form or who leave it blank. Sometimes it might be a genuine oversight. And sometimes, much as you don't want to leave a message on a machine, after a couple of wasted calls, you just have to.

May i suggest that, rather than letting it chew you out, it never hurts to ring and ask? I wouldn't regard that as pushy or in-my-face, i'd take it as genuine interest and commitment.

Cheers
Grant

Grant Malcolm so eloquently scribed:

May i suggest that, rather than letting it chew you out, it never hurts to ring and ask? I wouldn't regard that as pushy or in-my-face, i'd take it as genuine interest and commitment.

Ah, but not all are as forgiving as you, Grant. :-p

I had previously discussed this very topic with my Samoan Attorney, in light of my BUSTING to hear back about a recent audition. When does it become "good form" to take up thy phone and ring? As my attorney counselled, the accepted protocol was one week- which seems a smidge long if every fibre of your being is consumed with angst.

Any thoughts, gang?

Eliot

Re: Calling about the outcome of your audition.

What I've heard is that you don't do it. Ever. Like, ever. In other words, NEVER. It's nice to know I can now call Grant if he doesn't call me after an audition, but from several other auditioners...

In fact, I think that's whence came the age-old phrase 'don't call us, we'll call you.'

Or not, as the case may be.

Amanda Chesterton

PS A note for wussy directors who won't call (and I agree with whoever said that the bottom line is directors don't like the confrontation - lack of time my arse. How long d'you think it took to learn the bloody monologue learned just for that audition!): get each auditionee's email address and email them. Individually is preferable, group is a bit tacky as recipiants can see the other rejects...sorry people who auditioned. Vagabond just sent out the cast list to everyone who was rejected - blunt, but at least I know whose houses to bomb...;-)

Re: Calling about the outcome of your audition.

What I've heard is that you don't do it. Ever. Like, ever. In other words, NEVER. It's nice to know I can now call Grant if he doesn't call me after an audition, but from several other auditioners...

In fact, I think that's whence came the age-old phrase 'don't call us, we'll call you.'

Or not, as the case may be.

Amanda Chesterton

PS A note for wussy directors who won't call (and I agree with whoever said that the bottom line is directors don't like the confrontation - lack of time my arse. How long d'you think it took to learn the bloody monologue learned just for that audition!): get each auditionee's email address and email them. Individually is preferable, group is a bit tacky as recipiants can see the other rejects...sorry people who auditioned. One group just sent out the cast list to everyone who was rejected - blunt, but at least I know whose houses to bomb...;-)

Personally, if a didnt call me back, I'd question whether i wanted to work with them anyway.
I'd wonder how they will treat their actors when things start getting stressed and the 'not enough time' scenario sets in during the weeks leading up to a production.
Ive always been called back, even if its after the one week period and you know you didnt get the part anyway, it still counts.
Everybody deserves a certain level of respect.


Catherine

I have just fiished reading the commets made about directors calling back unsuccessful auditioners - to do, or not to do.

While I agree with some of the points made by both 'sides', I also wanted to comment on something Jason Sepric wrote:

- perhaps that director should find some other (non-group) way to express themselves. -Jason Seperic

Auditions are of ones own willing and choice. If they are going to wait around for a phone call, and be humiliated when not receiving one, and also the feeling of being rejected in not being cast, perhaps they should not be acting at all.

Being on both sides as an actor and director, I found as the former - if you haven't heard, you haven't got it. In fact, the one or two times a director has called with a rejection - I felt doubly rejected as I thought they'd called to offer me the role! How's that for psychology? I often go through the agents (as a director) and often give them comments to pass onto their actors - whether they do this or not, I don't know. I think Malcolm may be right about the time thing - I simply don't have the time to ring every single person that auditions (although I try). On the flip side of the coin - what about actors who book audition times and just don't turn up? That happens a lot - no explanation,nothing - leaving the audition panel twiddling their thumbs for half an hour. There are two sides to every story.

Well, this is the first time i have ventured to express my (usually ill informed) opinion on this site, but i think a point has been missed.........business it aint.

the reason its called amature theatre is because it is precisely that....amature. If you are in amature theatre for the money, you probably live in a box, or alley.....

I do this purely for the fun, friendship and love of it.......and yes i do work proffesionally, and you dont get calls from unsuccessful auditions, you get.....nothing.

If you are crushed and rejected by not getting a role then maybe its time to rethink your choice of hobby.

just a thought.....be gentle with me....

Kam

I would like to point out that a great many people are involved in amateur theatre because it is a love (read hobby) of theirs and NOT their chosen profession. There are also a lot of people who are venturing into the field anew. With a little support and encouragement these people will audition for other productions and possilbly score themselves a role in another show.

I feel it is a little harsh to expect these newcomers to `take it on the chin' when a simple phone call/letter could bolster their spirits and keep them willing to support community theatre.

Amanda Chesterton wrote:

> get each auditionee's email address and email them.
> Individually is preferable, group is a bit tacky as recipients
> can see the other rejects...sorry people who auditioned.

This is where the Blind Carbon Copy (Bcc) function comes in handy. Outlook Express has it, I don't know about any other e-mail s/w.

You type in a single recipient in the "mail to" section, and you can put your entire address book in the "Bcc" section, without any of them knowing who else was included. It's fab!

You can even go that one extra step further and be your own single open recipient.

Mwuhahahahaha!

I love twickery!


yours fubloigenly,
David M.

But the 'acting' business is harsh, and everyone knows that.

Yes, ametuer theatre it is for fun, and a hobby, and for the love of performing, but seriously - who expects the director to call them back.

If the certain 'actor' wants to find out how they went wrong, maybe they should call the director.

I believe a director chasing 50 odd people up to tell them they 'didn't' get in, is time wasting.

Most directors will tell you a certain day which the cast will be finalised, and that a call will be made to you or a letter - if you are chosen to be in. If you havn't received notice by then, then move onto your next audition.

Even just ask when the cast will be finalised, and calls made. That way if you havn't received your call by that day, then unfortunatly, you know the news.

>Kam wrote:
>-------------------------------
>If you are crushed and rejected by not getting a role then >maybe its time to rethink your choice of hobby...

I don't think anyone can audition, expose their heart and soul to a roomful of perfect strangers, miss out on a part and NOT feel dissapointed and let down, and to some extent, embarressed. It doesn't matter if you are professional or just a lowly ameteur.

Your feelings may be saved a little but a phone call. Just a quick "maybe next time.." or "I think you need to work on your projection/ accent/ not running in circles around the space..."

To those people who say they are too "busy" (read "important") to call auditionees back, if you must be heartless to your auditionees, at least make it clear to them. Something like "OK, thanks for your time. I don't plan on calling all of my auditionees back. If you don't hear from me in three days, I've cast someone else".

NOT that I condone this course but at least you spare a few anxious hours by the phone.

(Hope that wasn't too bad, Kam, welcome to the board!)

Lynama wrote:
-------------------------------
I believe a director chasing 50 odd people up to tell them they 'didn't' get in, is time wasting........

You got 50 people to audition for an ameteur show??!! How the hell did you manage that???

Indeed, this is an interesting subject matter.
Personally, i think you have ALL made some good and valid points
The point that a director simply hasn't got time to call 50 people back and "let them know"is valid and true.
Perhaps thefore the person who has auditioned should call back to see how she/he has got on. I mean, if this person is really interested and passionate to get a role,a simplea phone call on their behalf is not too much of an effort is it?.
However, what if there weren't 50 people. I recall someone being somewhat suprised that this director had even got 50 people to audition. What if there were only 5 people who were unsucessfull. Well then surely it wouldn't be too much of an ask then, for the directorto let those people know.

Personally, i think it's up to YOU the ACTOR to find out for yourself why you may or may not have been cast.

I am a newbie to this amateur world and do you know what?, I see already so much bickering, and complaining and moaning amongst some of the good points and useful advice thay has been made. Be grateful that you have such a vibrant community and encorage actors to be PRO-active in their approach to what we are doing.

Leah Maher wrote:

> I don't think anyone can audition, expose their
> heart and soul to a roomful of perfect strangers,
> miss out on a part and NOT feel dissapointed and
> let down, and to some extent, embarrassed.

When we're onstage in the finished performance, we "expose our heart and soul to a roomful of perfect strangers". If we're able to leave that behind, why should auditions be any different?

My feeling is, if you can't do an audition and then forget it, you shouldn't be a performer. Move on. As this site demonstrates, there's enough activity to keep a keen auditionee busy.

Instead of looking on an audition as a life or death "I have to get this part" situation, just use it as a chance to run through your audition piece(s) again. The less wieght you attach, the more relaxed you'll be, and -- as a direct, if ironic, result -- the better audition you'll give.

> It doesn't matter if you are professional or just a
> lowly amateur.

Still perpetuating under the guise of bemoaning, I see, Leah.


peace,
David M.

thanx leah, i survived that nicely.....:)....of course you feel dissappointed and let down. For every sucessful audition there are ten that you fail (or maybe thats just me....hmmmmmmm)

but crushed? rejected? really its not like they said "you suck like an electrolux, get out before i release the hounds"


if you lose an audition, learn from it, and remember that someone else is feeling that warm, funky "oh yeah i got the role" feeling......... and dont be bitter about it.....( that was aimed at the seemingly inexhaustable array of petulant little whingers that feel the need to complain and make personal attacks on other directors/actors at irregular intervals....sorry if its a little mean)

anyway......nuthin else to say.....oh well,

Kam

David Meadows wrote:
-------------------------------
Still perpetuating under the guise of bemoaning, I see, Leah.

Touche, Don Meadows.
Or if you would rather.."A hit sir, a very palpable hit..."

jackie wrote:
-------------------------------
Well I believe that is the wrong attitude to take. People are good enough to give their time to audition so it really is appropriate to call all people back.
I am not involved in Theatre but I am an employer of people and I would never consider not calling each individual that applied for a job in my business.


I recently held my very first ever auditions (and then went home to a LARGE gin & tonic) and not only did I (hopefully) remember to tell everyone that I _would_ call them during the week, but on the Wednesday, I sat down and started ringing around. (I picked Wednesday for purely selfish reasons - I get paid then and it makes the world a all-round nicer place.... ;) )

Unfortunately at this point I wasn't able to give anyone a 'yes' or 'no' answer, because I had had some more people want to audition - ones that couldn't make it to the first day, due to work and babies and that sort of thing. I had to leave a few messages on ansaphones because it reached the point where I needed to go out again, but I managed to let everyone know, somehow, that I would be calling with an answer on either Saturday or Sunday - after the next few auditions.

And I did - on Saturday afternoon.

I would never be able to consider not ringing, or emailing, anyone to let them know, and especially to thank them for their time and interest. No matter how many people there were.

It has nothing to do with shaky or overblown egos - it's just common politeness!

LouiseCC

More power to you Louise, I coulnd't agree more.

>Leah Maher wrote:
>-------------------------------

>Touche, Don Meadows.
>Or if you would rather.."A hit sir, a very palpable hit..."

If you must quote Shakespeare, PLEASE don't paraphrase. (V.ii.293)

Anal it may be, but don't expose your ignorance in trying to appear learned.

JH

It _may_ be anal?!

Justin, it _is_ anal.

Far _too_ anal. Even for me.

Or were you just sirring?

er... sorry... stirring.


peace,
D.M.

i recently auditioned for a play and it did not go quite as well as i had planned. i know there were not that many people that auditioned and after two weeks the director had not called me back. i was not disappointed about the part i knew i had mishugened the audition but i was disappointed that the director who seemed like a really nice guy had not bothered to call, tell me to call him, or given me a date that he would have cast the play by. well i too asumed it was a case of manners and so decided myself that he obviously was not brought up to respect other peoples feelings, until two days ago he rang. he said he had just made his decision and he was sorry to inform me i had missed out. now visiting ita i wonder whether he too saw this site and decided to do the right thing? thankyou - that's my business, i see alot of people have had something to say in response to this and perhaps people will think back to this in future audition situations.
it just goes to show this site really does serve a big purpose in the ameteur theatre community
tally ho

Lynama wrote:
-------------------------------
But the 'acting' business is harsh, and everyone knows that.

Yes, ametuer theatre it is for fun, and a hobby, and for the love of performing, but seriously - who expects the director to call them back.

If the certain 'actor' wants to find out how they went wrong, maybe they should call the director.

I believe a director chasing 50 odd people up to tell them they 'didn't' get in, is time wasting.

Most directors will tell you a certain day which the cast will be finalised, and that a call will be made to you or a letter - if you are chosen to be in. If you havn't received notice by then, then move onto your next audition.

Even just ask when the cast will be finalised, and calls made. That way if you havn't received your call by that day, then unfortunatly, you know the news.

Are you all talking about professional theatre or amateur? If the former then all I can say is "My God. What business do you think you are involved in?" It has nothing to do with courtesy or anything else. It has to do with...if you're not good enough I don't have time to waste calling you up afterwards and telling you. I auditioned for the first Aus casting of Cats. I didn't get past the first chorus and then "thank you." You didn't hear me crying to the producers "why, why why?" It's always been this way. If you don't like it then do things your way but don't expect the culture to change to suit you because that's the way it is and always will be.

Personally I tell people that if you don't hear from me then chances are you won't and not to sit by the phone waiting. Not for that role, anyway. But I always keep people in mind for other plays and I only call people back after their second audition and that suits me and them.

Now if talking about amateur theatre well, it's anybody's guess. Maybe it's all about niceness these days. I wouldn't know having not worked in that area for about 18 years and becoming fed up with people deluded about their own abilities and importance in the grand scheme of things.

And as for "ass-faced directors"...look only to the possibly [thought i could be wrong] talentless twirp who didn't get a role and started this discussion in the first place. But well done anyway. We'll let you know.

My god I have too much time on my hands this weekend. I hate Easter.

Steven
www.sub.net.au/~stevend

All I can say is;

May be praised!!! Let us make most welcome a visit from one of the 'special ones' - a real, living, breathing theatre professional!!

Let us grovel in unworthiness at the words of wisdom being so proffered by the one, to whom we are not even a gnats shoelace(!) in the grand schema of things!!

Just kidding! ;o)

Steven - I think you'll find that *most* of the discussion being perpetrated here relates specifically to the amateur theatre in Perth...which is a much more vibrant proposition than the pro theatre here, by A LONG WAY!

Anyway, for my part, I would like to see a 'uniformity' (for want of a better term) of behaviour towards actors/performers who audition - simple courtesy goes a long way. After all, we are more connected electronically than ever before...there is no excuse for not being able to at least whip off a quick e-mail or leave a voicemail message for the actor to ring back.

It's simply about dignity and integrity...when these fundamentals are taken for granted, sure we may have theatre, but we lack community...and for most people community is identity. Without identity, well, I'll leave you to decide where that would leave you...

Kindest Regards
Jason Seperic

While some people would appear to make much of different approaches across the spectrum of the industry, i'd share my own experiences that three of the most respected pro directors i know will 1) always call everyone personally; 2) send unsuccessful auditionees a letter of thanks; 3) adopt a "we'll call you" attitude.

I remember one particular professional audition a few years ago that must have seen almost everyone in this admittedly small town, but an acquaintance who didn't perform at their best due to illness was invited to come back a few days later and audition again!!

Oddly enough, the most appalling experience of a cattle call audition i've had was for an amateur musical.

I guess provided you let your auditionees know what to expect, they can't claim to be too disappointed if you do as you say.

Cheers
Grant

who do you think you are steven, the theatre nazi?
all that's my business was saying was when someone auditions they have a right to some form of reply
whether it is a letter, a call, or a simple "if you don't here by a certain date then i've gone with some one else". they never claimed to be frickin dame judy! but when they go up to receive their oscar for an outstanding performance in a blockbuster they'll remember this debate and probably say "thankyou steven dawson for having so little faith that all the left over was given to my good friend and amazing director quentin tarantino who took a chance and invested it in my talents and my performance"

you must think you're the small kevin spacey
hope you take it as well as you dish it out?

Firstly I'd just like to say "how typical" to the person who responded to my posting and sneered at the "professional and amateur" separation. You've given so much. Now....


Author: tallulah again (myoon0.connect.com.au)
Date: 16-04-01 18:50

"who do you think you are steven, the theatre nazi?
all that's my business was saying was when someone auditions they have a right to some form of reply"

No. They don't. Try reading my response again and take in in the vein it was written in.

"whether it is a letter, a call, or a simple "if you don't here by a certain date then i've gone with some one else". they never claimed to be frickin dame judy!"

My point and I thought it was quite clear. Obviously not to you. Try not to contradict yourself.

"but when they go up to receive their oscar for an outstanding performance in a blockbuster they'll remember this debate and probably say "thankyou steven dawson for having so little faith that all the left over was given to my good friend and amazing director quentin tarantino who took a chance and invested it in my talents and my performance"

We're talking theatre here. Try to focus. Or is it showbusiness you are interested in?

"you must think you're the small kevin spacey
hope you take it as well as you dish it out?"

You've dished something out? Mmm. Yes I can see that. Try not to be so sensitive. You won't make it in this business [if indeed you are actually in this business or hope to be] if you respond with such juvenile [and pretty predictable] attempts at spite. You might also try to avoid reading the show biz gossip sheets and movie magazines when you talk about theatre.

Thank you to Grant Malcolm, etc who gave good responses.

Finally, it seems that you all do things the way you want and actors will always bitch that they didn't get a part. Amateur and professional alike. And everyone has a right to be bitter in their own minds. That's part of the fun. But realistically, nothing will change, no matter how much you want it to. Sometimes you will get the odd director who will do things "nicely, nicely" and more power to them. But don't be surprised if it doesn't happen that way. Yours with all due respect.

Steven