'Artistic merit' versus popularity

A perennial subject, and one with which you are probably bored to death, but to illustrate the point (yet again)
The Old Mill Theatre is about to present one of the best dramatic plays, written by a well known playwright (Ronald Harwood) of modern time. It will be the first presentation of it in WA and for all I can discover, the first in Australia.
I refer of course to "Taking Sides" which commences on Friday March 22. Bookings are very slow to date and two social groups who usually book parties for our productions have told me: " not this one thanks, we'll wait for the next comedy"

We backed it because we think it's a damn good play which deserves to be seen, so all you 'theatre-lovers' out there who say where are all the good dramas, the booking number is 9367.8719
March 22/23, 27/28/30, April 4/5/6

Norma Davis wrote:
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"Bookings are very slow to date and two social groups who usually book parties for our productions have told me: 'not this one thanks, we'll wait for the next comedy'."

And that's entirely their prerogative. If the idea of sitting through a play (no matter how brilliant) watching Wilhelm Furtwangler be interrogated doesn't appeal, so be it.

It's their loss; yours too, but you know what I mean.

Eliot McCann

Of course it's everyone's choice over which shows to see/not to see and it WILL be their loss.
I was simply illustrating the point that it is quite depressing (to say nothing of the financial cost) for a company that has put a tremendous effort into putting on a play if the audiences don't come! Therefore we tend to go for the 'safe and predictable' most of the time just to be able to keep afloat.

I am also hoping that some of you "Theatricals" will respond to the challenge?

Eliot McCann wrote:
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Norma Davis wrote:
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"Bookings are very slow to date and two social groups who usually book parties for our productions have told me: 'not this one thanks, we'll wait for the next comedy'."

And that's entirely their prerogative. If the idea of sitting through a play (no matter how brilliant) watching Wilhelm Furtwangler be interrogated doesn't appeal, so be it.

It's their loss; yours too, but you know what I mean.

Eliot McCann

I'd love to see Old Mill do another musical! (In fact I'd love to be in another musical!) :)

While there's an abundance of evidence that 'artistic merit' and popularity don't necessarily coincide, I wasn't aware that the two were mutually exclusive.

Asserting that lack of popular appeal is a necessary evil accompanying any work of artistic merit is about as silly as claiming artistic merit on the basis of being unpopular!

Hamlet at the New Fortune Theatre is selling very well - we've packed more people into a single night than you can sell tickets for an entire season at the Blueroom.

I guess on that basis it has to be a dismal artistic failure.

:-)

Cheers
Grant

Grant Malcolm wrote:
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Hamlet at the New Fortune Theatre is selling very well....
I guess on that basis it has to be a dismal artistic failure.


Yes Grant, selling well but not yet sold out! Hamlet is on for another week at the New Fortune UWA, bookings on 9451 3799.

Go and revel in the amazing experience of seeing WA's best of the best on one stage at one time. The old ....., I mean more experienced..... guard in the shape of Colin O'Brien, Fred Lawson, Conrad Cristifulli, the beautiful Shirley Welsh as Gertrude and the indomiatable and hilarious Peter Fry as the Gravedigger along with the next big bright young things represented by Tony Petani of Cyclone and Brittanicus fame, Craig Edwards from Smoke, Eliot McCann (yes that's right, the guy who stole the show in the much lauded Amedaus), Adam McGurk (the naked guy on the Romeo and Juliet poster now resplendent in sequens), Mark Blades being just as different from his character in Brittanicus as it is possible to be and of course Ben "That Boy's Gonna Be a Star" Sorgiovani as the Laertes you just want to hug. Also on stage almost the entire male cast of Don's Party (see if you can spot who belongs to the voice of the ghost king).

And some guy in the lead who's name I can't remember right now.

Just kidding DM; read the posts of Mr David Meadows and, if you disagree with them, go to see Hamlet determined to hate him. Realise in amazment at the end of the play that all that rotten fruit you brought with you is still in it's bag. That so enthralled and moved were you by his performance, it just didn't occur to you to throw it at him.....although that experience could be unique to just me.

Bottom line, if you miss it you will be sorry. Very sorry. Very very sorry.

Everyone who books in the next five seconds gets a free peacock, personally killed on stage by Mr Fred Lawson the next time it upstages his big praying scene!!!

Leah Maher wrote:
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Everyone who books in the next five seconds gets a free peacock, personally killed on stage by Mr Fred Lawson the next time it upstages his big praying scene!!!
ROTFL.

Auctor

Grant Malcolm wrote:
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I guess on that basis it has to be a dismal artistic failure.
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It kinda helps to have 400 years of state-sponsored advertising too, don't you think?
=)
Auctor

Auctor wrote:
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Leah Maher wrote:
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Everyone who books in the next five seconds gets a free peacock, personally killed on stage by Mr Fred Lawson the next time it upstages his big praying scene!!!
ROTFL.

Auctor
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We backstage crew took good care of the peacock. VERY...GOOD..CARE...

Bwahahahaha! (Peacock sandwiches anyone?)

P.

Thou saucy idle-headed clack-dish!

Eliot McCann wrote:
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Norma Davis wrote:
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>>>"Bookings are very slow to date and two social groups who usually book parties for our productions have told me: 'not this one thanks, we'll wait for the next comedy'."

>And that's entirely their prerogative. If the idea of sitting through a play (no matter how brilliant) watching Wilhelm Furtwangler be interrogated doesn't appeal, so be it.



Yes, but this prevalent attitude is unfortunately not going to help "Meddoes" vision of brave theatre, is it?

We've established that "artistic merit" and "popularity" are not mutually exclusive terms, but how do we account for "appeal" ? That is, before you've even seen a show, what is going to attract/repel you? Is it the cast? the company? the director? whether it's a comedy or a tragedy? a known script or a new work? a brilliant experimental piece or a banal but fun musical?
All of these factors seem to effect "appeal" long before we can determine whether or not the show is "popular".

Audiences in my experience tend to prefer "popular" theatre - ie, they wait until the reviews are out or they hear word of mouth from their friends (or this website) before making a decision. Hence the classic problem of empty houses the first week and turning people away on the last night. Obviously it helps a lot if the show also has "artistic merit" (however that is defined), but again, it doesn't seem to be a pre-requisite either. All sorts of things appeal to all types.

What we really need, somehow, is to develop brave audiences.

I'm sure there are people who will go along to see a movie with little or no expectation of what it may be like? Admittedly, anything produced at Hoyts is automatically pretty "safe", but there is still the opportunity to surprise yourself with something you don't automatically like, or hate. And whether that's a good or a bad experience usually doesn't deter you from going to see another movie you know little about.

If we were as brave in attending theatre that doesn't automatically appeal to us, we would create the environment for more variety. It would encourage companies to be willing to take more risks. It would give us the opportunity to be surprised. It probably wouldn't effect what is "popular", but it would perhaps expand the notion of what appeals. And it might help move us in the direction of this artistic utopia some seek.

It's not only the artists who ought to be brave.

Cheers,
Craig

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I think what we marketing people call this is 'audience development'. Not many clubs do it, alot of clubs keep catering to the same audience which is ok when your houses are near to full, but you really see the impact when you vere away from the usual genre of play the company performs. Sure you get the bums on the seats but, perhaps unfortunatley, have done nothing towards educating those 'bums' in the process.
As community theatres, often we dont see our responsibility as 'educating' or 'expanding' the minds of our audiences as we are too busy trying to squeeze together enough money for the next production. I guess its sometimes seen as a luxury that only the pro theatres can afford. Blak Yak does it, but its common knowledge that it been hard for them, I think its fantastic they have developed an audience as diverse as the plays they perform.
We had the same problem as The Old MIll at The Irish Club, 'Little Moon of Alban' was described by some as 'too heavy a drama'. Compared to your usual Irish comedy about cows and potatoes, maybe it was, but we're glad were performed it, it changed alot of peoples ideas about Irish drama and those people will be back again.
If anything Norma I think 'Taking Sides' may expand the horizons of your audience. You always get those that drop off for whatever reasons, but they can be replaced by new blood coming in.


Catherine Mc
The Studio

Now, now, I hope this isn't going to turn nasty. Maybe I didn't express myself very well.
I was merely lamenting the fact that "unknown plays" , especially if they are serious stuff, generally DO NOT attract large audiences and that is very disheartening for the people concerned, and what do we do.
Grant, you are very touchy. Hamlet is a very well known play even in today's philistine world and no-one in their right mind would dispute either it's 'popularity' or 'artistic merit' (what a horrible phrase that is, there must be a better one somewhere)
(Gets back in box)

Thou warped beef-witted gudgeon!
(thought I'd see what insult came up, Gudgeon: small fresh water fish, credulous person, pin holding two blocks of stone together etc etc) O dear O dear.

Thanks Catherine, nice to get some encouragement from ones fellows. will tell you how things went after April 6th (last night!)

Norma Davis wrote:
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> Grant, you are very touchy.

*makes mental note to include lots more smilies next time so Norma will know when my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek*

:-)

Cheers
Grant

Auctor asked:
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"It kinda helps to have 400 years of state-sponsored advertising too, don't you think?"

No.

I don't.

A lot of folk (albeit not theatrical types) have asked me "why would I shell out my hard-earned to come see a show that is 400yrs old, 400yrs long and in an outside venue?" These people are called philistines- and they work where I do. However these are the kind of people I've been trying to convince to see a show I believe has great entertainment value on many levels.

Eliot

ps: PLUS the music in it is wonderful- so I've been led to believe.

Eliot:

ps: PLUS the music in it is wonderful- so I've been led to believe.

___________________

Do you mean the front of house music? Yes, it is wonderful. 8-)

I get the comment from work mates that they're not 'educated' or smart enough to understand Shakespeare. Old Will didn't write for the intellegentsia, he wrote for the masses.

It's a pity the masses don't understand this. I try to explain that you don't need to understand every single word but there seems to be an inbuilt Shakespeare filter in a lot of people.

P.

Thou surly weather-bitten whey-face!

Eliot McCann wrote:
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No.

I don't.
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So you don't believe that Hamlet has received any benefit from being the most recognised (misquoted and satirised) piece of dramatic literature in the English-speaking world?

Auctor wrote:
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>>So you don't believe that Hamlet has received any benefit from being the most recognised (misquoted and satirised) piece of dramatic literature in the English-speaking world?


I don't see how Hamlet could have received any benefit...because according to Fortinbras, he's dead.


crgwllms

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Auctor asked:
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*So you don't believe that Hamlet has received any benefit from being the most recognised (misquoted and satirised) piece of dramatic literature in the English-speaking world?

At the risk of repeating myself: No. I don't.

People *think* they know Hamlet, and *think* they know the quotable quotes, but as Auctor has pointed out it often becomes misquoted and satirised. Certainly the English language has reaped the harvest of many of the phrases found in the play; but how many people who use these phrases have actually *seen* the work?

Hopefully, come Sunday morning the number will have increased dramatically- not to crack the wind of a poor phrase....

Eliot McCann

I don't see how Hamlet could have received any benefit...because according to Fortinbras, he's dead.


crgwllms

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Dammit, Crg! You've given the ending away! Now no one will come and see it.P.

PS Everybody dies in the Scottish play too.

Thou warped tickle-brained joithead!

I think you're underestimating how important the Hamlet and Shakespeare brand names are in terms of marketing. While it's not a licence to print money it's a massive head start that plays like Taking Sides don't have. People prefer familiarity. It's the same reason that they go to a Vietnamese restaurant and order steak and chips.

crgwllms wrote:
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I don't see how Hamlet could have received any benefit...because according to Fortinbras, he's dead.
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So, you're the one that bought the bridge Fortinbras was trying to sell.
....
Auctor

Auctor wrote:
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>>So, you're the one that bought the bridge Fortinbras was trying to sell.


I wondered why I got so wet trying to drive from Elsinore to Malmo.


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