Not bowing after a performance?

Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 01:03 am

Would you consider leaving the traditional bows out of the end of a piece of theatre? Have you seen or been involved in a production that has opted to end the show at curtain down? I've just arrived home from the tech run of SIX (a UDS production; we open on Thursday) where we had a bit of a heated discussion over bows, and whether or not they are necessary/desirable for a play. I think, as an audience member, I'd feel a bit disgruntled if everyone was clapping for minutes on end and the bows just never came. It's expected. Especially in Perth, especially for community theatre, when half the audience is the actors' friends and family. And as an actor, it just seems a bit pretentious and ungrateful not to. Audience: "You guys were great!" Actor: "Whatever; shut up. Theatre is an expression of meaning, not an opportunity to bathe in kudos. You clearly don't understand." Plus it gives an opportunity to thank the SM, lighting crew, sound crew etc... So what do you reckon? Are curtain calls archaic, pointless and vain? Does it break the tone of the ending of a play if everyone comes on and bows afterwards? Or do they bring the play to a proper end and connect the actors with the audience? (Of course I don't mean massive Broadway-style choreographed bows... just an ensemble cast taking one bow, applauding to the box and applauding to the wings).

Thread (27 posts)

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Louisa FitzhardingeTue, 26 Aug 2008, 01:03 am

NaTue, 26 Aug 2008, 01:19 am

I think it depends. I used

I think it depends. I used to work with a group of guys, who after the end of the show, would take a short curtain call, and then proceed to spend five minutes giving a plug for the next night and trying to convince the audience to encourage other people to come (they also spent some of that time saying how it was their first shows and how blah blah blah). I think that type of thing spoils it, and actors should definitely either just do a silent curtain call or not do one at all. The audience doesn't want to hear a five minute spiel on a show they've just seen. On the other hand, I've never really thought much about whether or not the curtain call is archaic. I guess we're used to doing it. Personally, I don't see why not. If films have credits, why can't we do a curtain call? Although there are exceptions to the rule: the BBC show Spooks didn't have credits for much of their seasons. The theory being that if the real spooks go nameless, then so shall the cast and crew. I personally liked this, but then, it was in context. Maybe it just depends on the show, the content and the style. Finger puppets now on sale at Puppets in Melbourne

dramaboyTue, 26 Aug 2008, 06:55 am

bows

brad clarke

To not have bows at the end of a show is a complete travesty and very unfair to the performers.... I was involved in a big production of West side story years ago where the director chose to just have the cast stand together on the dimly lit stage and whilst it was an effective way for the dramatic ending of WSS,it nonetheless robbed the cast of their dues....

LogosTue, 26 Aug 2008, 08:04 am

My last Fringe Show

My last Fringe show ended with one of the characters being tortured to death then dragged off stage by two silent nameless guards. A beautiful and truly emotional piece of music played written specially for the show. I could not make up my mind and eventually let the actors decide and they chose not to have a curtain call. I did not impose this on them. I had several different audience reactions. At least one audience pretty much all stayed until the actors came out of the dressing room then applauded. I really think it depends so strongly on the play and the ending. In all the time I have done this I have only not had curtain calls in three of the 100 or so plays I have directed. One was "Oh What a Lovely War" where in my production after the final song the cast went off being handed poppies as they left by figures in black. One was "The Day They Shot John Lennon" where the script is written so each character delivers a final line and leaves and then as above. I don't think it is necessarily unfair to the performers but I do think it can be unfair to the audience. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Walter PlingeTue, 26 Aug 2008, 11:12 am

Curtain calls can be so

Curtain calls can be so tedious, both from an actor's point of a view and an audience member. Give me a tableau any day and you avoid any laboured applause from the audience.

McPhilTue, 26 Aug 2008, 12:47 pm

Take a bow

I am bowing with you louisa.

A curtain close can be very effective for the appropriate work

Curtain calls can be tedious but give the audience what they want and sometimes give them what they need.

Phil

SkybeTue, 26 Aug 2008, 12:52 pm

I get embarassed!I know

I get embarassed! I know its stupid im suppose to love standing up and strutting my stuff in front of people. My sister once said "Why did you pull that shitty sour puss face during bows - it makes you look stuck up" - for ONCE (and only once!) she is right. I do pull a stupid face and its because I suddenly have to become...me. And to be honest 'me' is far far far less interesting than the characters I play and quite frankly - a nerd. I have spent the whole time on stage being someone else and then suddenly in the blink of an eye - become me. It takes me ages to get into character - i cant get rid of it that quickly either. OR! (light bulb goes off) should I stay the character taking the bow? The only time I've ever felt comfortable bowing was after We Will Rock You, cos the atmosphere was electric, the songs were still blasting, the cast would go crazy (like their characters) and hell! i deserved the bow cos i would be head to toe in sweat by the end of the show. I dont really know where this post was going - so i'm going to finish it... Ohhhh man do I need to end with a closing sentence? or can I just cut it there! ARGH! - Sky

Walter PlingeTue, 26 Aug 2008, 02:56 pm

it totally depends on the

it totally depends on the show. for example "a chorus line" should never be done with a curtain call - as the point of the show is to honour the gypsies who never get their own bows. for a play, i think a quick ensemble bow is often best, it allows the audience to show their appreciation...however if the director thinks it ruins the effect of the ending of the play then i guess that's their preogative?

Neville TalbotTue, 26 Aug 2008, 05:04 pm

Bowing out

I have been in shows with all types of bows. The big broadway/opera stuff, quick ensemble, and just the couple of leads. Personally I think the audience deserves it as an acknowledgment of their coming and seeing our thing. That said, they can become silly. The opera I just did felt interminable in the bows. Chorus, then each principal individual, then a line of principals, company, then out comes the conductor, acknowledge the band, do another company, then step back, all principals individually again, then company again, and some nights another company, then finally wave and leave the stage... Needless to say, I found this dull from the stage, let alone what I suspect many in the audience felt... I think bowing in character works in many cases, as it does not provide that 'jarring' experience for the audience with "Who the hell is this bowing? They were a bastard villain 2 seconds ago, and now they're smiley clown face..." So I think- Yes bows, unless appropriate with that show. Only bows, and as quick as possible. (NO TALKING!) Don't overstay your welcome, don't force the audience to keep going (which they will if you stay out there). Get out and mingle ASAP... Nev It's the simple things stupid...

Walter PlingeTue, 26 Aug 2008, 05:13 pm

Bowing

The whole point of bowing is to thank the audience for paying to come and see show. It is a mark of respect by the actors and a show of appreciation. Also it gives the actors the chance to break out of their characters. To not bow and take a curtain call is not only rude but disrespectful.

NaTue, 26 Aug 2008, 06:05 pm

Disrespectful?

Are we really to believe that it is so wrong not to do a curtain call that the audience is going to be offended enough to either not come back, not encourage other people to attend, or to complain? I don't think so. Yes, I agree that most audiences will be disappointed, but they're not going to be offended by it. Finger puppets now on sale at Puppets in Melbourne

jeffhansenWed, 27 Aug 2008, 10:09 pm

Bows

Personally, I hate the clapping to the bio-box and backstage. I think it looks twee. As an actor, when given the choice, I vote NO every time. As a biobox operator (and I've done a lot of that) I invariably ask the director that I not be included in this way. If the actors want to say thanks, I would rather it be done at the bar after the show. My preference. www.meltheco.org.au

Tim ProsserWed, 27 Aug 2008, 10:56 pm

Right with you on that one,

Right with you on that one, Jeff. I feel most uncomfortable with it and just won't do it. Perhaps it's an age thing with me, but it feels and looks like an undignified indulgence in self-congratulation by starstruck teenagers. I don't think it's always clear to audiences just who or what the performers are clapping for, though when the enthusiastic ones start clapping other cast members . . . well, yes, that just doesn't sit well. Doubtless someone will take me to task and I'll be told it's old-fashioned, but the customary bow to thank the audience for giving you their time, and an extended gesture to the bio box (representing the house) should be quite sufficient. Audiences clap, cast members do not. Phew! Glad I got THAT off my chest! Regards, Tim.

LogosThu, 28 Aug 2008, 07:39 am

Curtain calls

I like the simple acknowledgement to the bio box and that is really to acknowledge the whole crew. It should just be a raised arm though not clapping. Acknowledge the MD and orchestra, once again simple, but I hate it when casts start applauding each other on stage. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Bass GuyThu, 28 Aug 2008, 08:40 am

DAMN straight!!!

I'm with Prosser on this one too, jeff- Agreed, agreed, agreed!! I believe the performers onstage who have just accepted audience applause SHOULD IN NO WAY join that applause for the backstagers and boffins. The performers should, in my view, acknowledge the location of said marvelettes and let the AUDIENCE continue the applause. Otherwise the whole things does look twee. "Proud and insolent youth; prepare to meet thy doom!"

JoeMcThu, 28 Aug 2008, 08:45 am

Thank Gawd a breeze of

Thank Gawd a breeze of sensibility!

Having been brought up in the era of performances being measured in the number of times the house rag is bounced. Lets leave the 'walk downs' for Panto. If it is appropriate have only a ensemble tableau at best. Then drop the Iron & let the BOS's go home or more importantly, go out for a smoke.

As for acknowledging the bio box or luvvies & twirlies clapping each other, this reminds me of all those yanky "Come on down" TV game shows.

I even get annoyed when this happens during rehearsals, after some warm prop sings a song.

I'm sure there are a few techies here, that have done the 'Rag Bounce' on a number of occasions. Jumping off the fly rail to haul the front Hemp line down to the stage & switching to the back line to reverse the rag. After becoming knacked from bouncing the rag a dozen times, the only wish is not to hear those words "Rag Go!" again. Then Snot all the hemps, set the ghost light & evaporate.

Curtain Calls

stingerThu, 28 Aug 2008, 09:52 am

Bio or Bijoux?

By the way - where does this expression 'bio box' originate? Anybody? Ssstinger>>>

LogosThu, 28 Aug 2008, 11:38 am

Bouncing curtains

I worked in a theatre in the UK that was a converted cinema. House rag was major blue velvet backed with full weight black wool. Weighed a ton and was on a hand winch horizontal not flown. You could bounce the curtains but it was completely knackering. The record was 13 secs for in and out and visiting SM's used to throw their chest out and try to beat it. It was amusing to watch. It was my record and in my prime I was over six feet tall and had great shoulder development. I had of course also had lots of experience playing with the curtain and learning the right way to do it. You had to do it with cans on too because the curtains were OP. The second bounce always took about 4 secs longer and so on. We had a lot of Operas visit. It was a nightmare. I understand my record was beaten about a year after I left. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

PHILLIP MACKENZIEThu, 28 Aug 2008, 12:07 pm

CURTAIN CALLS

I've no real prolems with curtain calls, provided they are snappy, well rehearsed, don't look like a muddled Mexican wave and avoid the twee. I believe the practice of acknowledging the bio and crew is a recent and twee corruption of a rather nice European tradition by which the cast returned the audience's applause. PS for Stinger : I believe that the bio box is so called because of its inception as the accommodation for the biograph or projector which was introduced with the movies. But I could be wrong. FLIPMAC

NaThu, 28 Aug 2008, 12:47 pm

What about this?

What about handing directors/cast/whoever flowers at the end of a season? Mermaid shadow puppet now on sale at Puppets in Melbourne

JoeMcThu, 28 Aug 2008, 02:22 pm

Your right Philmac it did

Your right Philmac it did come about because of the "biograph' projector & where it was housed.

The company that developed it, grew out of the Mutograph ["what the butler saw" viewers] picture card animation.

The natural place to display moving pictures was from the balcony of theatres. Which was more accommodating than the local town halls & Assembly rooms. So a box was gaffed up hurriedly & erected for the projector in theatres. Thus spawned the 'Bio box' which came into it's own, with the advent of rock 'n roll & electronics, also lighting/audio control becoming smaller & more portable.

Daniel KershawThu, 28 Aug 2008, 07:59 pm

bio box - noun. Derives

bio box - noun. Derives from biological box. A bio box is traditionally where zoos used to house large apes. The transition of the term to theatre was initially marked with some objection, mostly from the sound and lighting operators. However no one else seemed to care.

JoeMcThu, 28 Aug 2008, 10:56 pm

Good one Daniel - except

Good one Daniel - except the term was coined long before, the eventual transfer from back stage to the FOH, with the lighting dimmer & audio controls. In fact I know of one that still had banks of Sunset Row dimmers & a lighting gas table. Even though it was converted in the 20's to the Stoll Cinema, from the Tyne theatre & Opera House. It always had a bio box that the Mid Lime [Followspot] was also housed, while it was a cinema & used for the odd theatre performance. Besides it still having it's OP & PS Lime pulpits.

It was in the 70's that it was converted back to a theatre again, retaining the Bio box, as a control booth.

TaureanFri, 29 Aug 2008, 04:17 pm

BIO Box - an off-topic topic.

Hmm ... seems to me we have played this game before.....

Check this out...

http://www.theatre.asn.au/node/7326

2 years short of a decade ago this topic was raised... and guess what?

We are still none the wiser!

(Maybe Daniel's tongue in cheek suggestion was closer to the mark than we think!)

Daniel, a message for you (See below)

"Be nice to your Tech's - or they'll turn out the lights and go home!"

NaFri, 29 Aug 2008, 04:49 pm

I've added the above link

I've added the above link to the FAQ, so we can always find the background to the term 'bio box'. We really should have had an explanation there in the first place. Mermaid shadow puppet now on sale at Puppets in Melbourne

Zola VodFri, 29 Aug 2008, 08:03 pm

Performing Arts, Within theatre, Without Theatre...

I guess it all depends, I mean things have changed. It depends what type of performance it is. If the piece is like a major production like Sunset Blvd. or something I guess it is customary to bow, as that is what would be expected. But if the production was really saying something, or was intended to make some sort of impact then the director might not want a bow to occur. I think it is entirely up to the director, wether she or he wants it in thier show or not. There are no rules in art, well at least the art I am often involved with. I seen Civil at Pica recently, and the solo actor was stark naked and covered in red wine by the end and he still bowed, so it really depends on what the director wants. Maybe even some theatre may not traditionally include a bow, for instance, theatre now is very different from the theatre that was here before this civilisation came about. Street theatre, War renactments for example, they often dont end with bows. Performance is everywhere, and its nothing new either, it has been like that for years now, It doesnt have to occur in a theatre or in a traditional way. Thats my view anyway.

bron_1313Sat, 30 Aug 2008, 02:19 pm

I found this post rather

I found this post rather interesting. Two years ago I was involved in performing Edward Albies zoo story. We were two young women playing the roles of the men Peter and Jerry. For those of you who are unfamiliar with this one Peter accidently stabs Jerry. It is a very emotive piece and we decided that by not taking a bow at the end it enhanced the effect of the very end. We ended it with Peter screaming "Oh My God" off stage and closed the curtain and went straight to intermission. It was strange as the audience were stunned by the play...we asked a few audience members whether it was an ok way to end the show, generally speaking they thought it enhanced the experience for them personally. I personally had never thought about ending a show with out a bow but after that one I think it can be a very powerful way to close a show...particularly if its a drama.

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