WA Repeats

Sat, 16 Feb 2008, 01:30 pm

dead28 posts in thread

Just a thought about WA Theatre and the lack of inspiration to try something different - every year is like a repeat. Consider the following: 1) 2007 Limelight Theatre - Cabaret // 2008 Kwinana Theatre Workshop - Cabaret Tough act to follow - winner of Best Musical 2007 Finley’s (so why?) 2) 2007 GRADS - Importance of being Earnest // 2008 Limelight - Importance of being Earnest This show is done almost every year - lets make a joint promise to give it a break for 5 years! 3) 2008 Marloo - Pirates of Penzance // 2008 G&S Society (city) - Pirates of Penzance I know which production I would rather see!! 4) 2006 Playlovers - Seussical // 2008 Mandurah - Seussical Again another tough match - give it a few years to settle And there are lots more - this does not help create a fresh theatrical market. Two points: 1) let's mix it up a bit and ensure we are not repeating ourselves (5 year gaps) 2) Take risks - too many theatres just play it safe - take a chance; there is so much more theatre work out there which has yet to be touched. Just thoughts ......... DW

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Walter PlingeSat, 16 Feb 2008, 04:48 pm

I can't speak for the rest

I can't speak for the other productions but 'Earnest' played to almost full houses. There is obviously an audience for it. Why would we need to 'give it a break for 5 years'?

JustSuseSun, 17 Feb 2008, 12:46 am

I totally agree

I agree that some plays are just done too often. You actually left out that Earnest was also done at the Old Mill in 07 - and at Marloo in 04!!! Yes, please Give it a five year rest after Limelight. As a director one of the most frustrating things I ever hear, and I hear it quite often, is to be told - 'Oh No Dear, our audience wouldn't like that!" I have learned only to offer the more adventurous plays to certain theatres. I think this is a very short sighted attitude for the clubs to take. I think that unless you are completely content to play to the same audience season after season you NEED to challenge them now and then. Take a risk. Don't offer them milk arrowroot biscuits soaked in milk all the time - give them something to gnaw on. OK, so a lot of them won't like it at first, but if you use BOCS or somesuch you just might find yourself some new audience members.

NormaSun, 17 Feb 2008, 10:20 am

WA Repeats

While I agree with Sue, it really is a very fine balancing act. Melville have just ended a season of an Albee play, Three Tall Women, for which the audiences were not that good- number wise that is. As a (more or less) silent participant in the play I could observe and hear the excellence of the play and the fine acting. It was an extremely challenging play and I'm sure personally satisfying one for the director and actors but certainly not financially good. That's fine to do occasionally but unfortunately 'bums on seats' has to be the name of the game on most occasions or we all go broke! That said, Playlovers seeems to be being fairly successful at breaking the mould recently!

The answer has to be a mixture surely?? however there are lots and lots of never- done -in WA- before plays which will surely attract audiences. The above mentioned club seems to be doing a good mix of the tried and true and the more "adventurous" ones this year.

Not trying for a "solution" - merely musing after a late night.

KimberleySun, 17 Feb 2008, 11:56 am

WA Repeats

You could almost recommend The Importance of Being Earnest as THE play to do to stave off financial ruin. It always gets an audience and you don't pay royalties... As for Cabaret and Seussical - geography needs to be considered. Wanneroo and Kwinana and Pinjarra all have very loyal LOCAL audiences who comprise the bulk of their bums on seats. Lets say that makes 80% of the crowd. You will lose some of the remaining 20% of travelling audience. You make up the difference by riding on the coat tails of the previous show and gaining " Darn, I missed that and I heard it was good." audiences and the "Oh I loved that and would like to see it done again." audiences as well as the "I was in that show and I bet they can't do it as well as we did." audience So financially it makes a great deal of sense. I'd love to see more new things too, but as a former club president, I know what it is like to worry about the financial side. Oh and there are THREE versions of Pirates this year. Manpac are doing it too.

Walter PlingeSun, 17 Feb 2008, 04:10 pm

Repeats

Of course successful plays/musicals will be staged by other groups, thats what makes them successful. If they attract full houses then what is wrong with that? "Bums on Seats" equals financial security, financial security in amateur theatre is everything as we don't get subsidized. Be as adventurous as you wish when the finances are stable, but up until then remember that theatre is first and foremost for entertainment (of the audience) it needs no other passport. Is it more beneficial to perform a well known classic or a modern classic to a full house, or perform in an arthouse off off Broadway production to handful of diehard theatre buffs who will dissect the script and production in minutiae and complain that meaningful theatre is not well supported.

Walter PlingeSun, 17 Feb 2008, 05:55 pm

repeats

It just goes to show the lack of imagination. Think how often 'Romeo and Juliet' and 'A Midsummer Nights Dream' has been done, not to mention 'Lysistrata' which has made four appearances in as many years. I recall two versions of Noel Coward's 'Fallen Angels', one season after another - and this wasn't even Noel's best play. Of course community theatre needs to be able to make a profit and rely on safe bets, but you also need to have courage and take risks and I don't see a lot of that in community theatre.

NaSun, 17 Feb 2008, 06:08 pm

People are forgetting...

... that this isn't limited to the amateur scene. The MTC produces nothing but tried-and-true shows, unless the script comes from the latest award-winning playwright. Even the larger pro companies are relying on 'safe' scripts. Mini-monster puppets customised just for you! at Puppets in Melbourne

Walter PlingeSun, 17 Feb 2008, 08:12 pm

Repeats

So we take the advice and do riskier plays, the audience dwindles, the coffers dwindle, what do we do get the audience back, we put on a pot-boiler. Why do we put on a pot-boiler? Because that’s what the audience want. We slowly build back our lost audience, and then try again. My question is why do we do theatre? Is it to entertain or to educate? I'll go for entertainment and perform to full houses every night thank you. If I am going spend 2-3 months of my life learning a script, putting my real life on hold, then I want a good script, a good director and a good audience. I did my time in fringe theatre where the cast is bigger than audience, been ripped to pieces by the crits, gone home soul searching for a deeper meaning and came to the conclusion people go to theatre to be entertained not educated.

Don AllenSun, 17 Feb 2008, 11:03 pm

Riskier or Different Plays ?

OK so when you do different plays your audience dwindles, that because they are your safe play audience. If you want to do different plays, then advertise well for a different audience, advise your safe audience to sit this one out and come to the next one as they will enjoy that one. I used to look forward to doing the lighting for Norma as her plays were the challenging different ones and the safe audience knew not to come to the first play of the year, but the different audience did. Have a look at the web sites of the clubs doing different plays in their seasons, their advertising and synopsis are up to date. Tell people what you are doing, reach out further for your different audience to get the numbers you need for a commercial success and be comfortable knowing the committee are having safe plays for the clubs financial success and because a lot of people like them. We have seen Earnest so many times and my wife will still want to go again, whats wrong with that. We also saw Minefields and Miniskrts at the Playhouse, different but great production. Because you are amateur theatre, a lot of you are only doing one or two plays a year as that is all you can fit in. Choose what you want to do or go to committee meetings to see if one different play can fit into the years schedule.

LogosMon, 18 Feb 2008, 07:35 am

This is a problem we all

This is a problem we all have to face. I have a friend here in Adelaide who does one or two shows a year as Producer. He always does farce and has a very small group of actors he selects from. he pretty much sells out but if he strays from his formula even to the extent of using a different theatre he loses audience because he loses his comfortable habit audiences. And because he only does farce he doesn't pick up others. I do new works largely. Sure I play to smaller houses but our audiences are growing with every show. I also find I get more commitment from my performers because I am challenging them. I think we are both right. We are both producing theatre, I wouldn't be happy doing what he is doing, he wouldn't be happy doing what I am doing. I go to his shows (and occasionally help out with lights or stage management) and he comes to mine and occasionally helps me out. Oh and "The Importance of Being Earnest" is a great play and can't be done too often. Lysistrata is interesting I haven't heard of it being done here in Adelaide for years, I am planning it for the end of the year. I was going to do a new American play but the royalties have gone through the roof. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

SkybeMon, 18 Feb 2008, 04:14 pm

Clarification...

Just a little clarification that Seussical is a Murray Music and Drama production in Pinjarra - not at Mandurah Little Theatre or MPAC. :) I like to think that possibly directors see a production and are inspired by other directors/actors work therefore they put the piece on themselves. I still remember seeing A Woman in a Tree on a Hill by Blakyak at a festival when I was about 17 (9years ago) and thought to myself back then, when i director, one day, that will be a play I would like to try. Also a very good point made above with the geographical location of the clubs. - Sky

LabrugMon, 18 Feb 2008, 05:13 pm

Spoilt For Choice

Something else I think we all need to be aware of when discussing the repetition of plays in this state - There are a large number of Community Theatre Groups in WA. Someone, somewhere is going to be doing a play recently done elsewhere. While each group tries o ensure they are not covering old ground all that often, you cannot expect that level of 'caution' (for want of a better word) across such an expansive group.

Stirling Players (for example) does quite a lot of theatre developed by local writers, and to some degree so does Garrick Theatre. This is but two groups that do this. Most groups tend to try at least one "fringe" show a year but they need to pay the bills so many shows will be more mainstream.

Combine that with the number of theatres... I think that repetition across the state is simply unavoidable. Take it on a Theatre by Theatre basis and you will see what I am saying. The more well-known pays simply stand-out more than the unfamiliar.

Then again, why should a little bit of double-up be a problem? Theatrical productions in both the UK and America can have runs lasting years and not doubt have multiple versions occurring at the same time, something which only occasionally happens in WA Theatre.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Director

Home Page
Yahoo Blog Page

NaMon, 18 Feb 2008, 05:36 pm

Repeats

Let's not forget that European theatre was mostly based on repertory shows, and that the fact that it continues to exist suggests audiences do not tire of the same old shows - so long as they are rotated of course. Mini-monster puppets customised just for you! at Puppets in Melbourne

Sean BMon, 18 Feb 2008, 08:13 pm

Mmm actually it would be

Mmm actually it would be interesting to get the figures for say a show that's run for an extended time on Broadway (meaning multiple years) and see if we can create a list of how many times the show has been performed in Aus (maybe more specific by state), with duration and see if it rivals the duration on B'Way. Les Mis would possibly be a good one to try. Sean ____________________________________________________________ Currently working on: 'Locked In' a short play based on a real life experience For more details visit: www.freewebs.com/lazycreationsgroup

SkybeTue, 19 Feb 2008, 07:50 am

Les Miss

Taken from http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117974918.html?categoryid=15&cs=1 Oct. 29, 2007 "Les Miserables is dismantling the Broadway barricades again. The revival of producer Cameron Mackintosh’s perennial megamusical -- which opened at the Broadhurst last fall, 3Â½ years after the original Rialto production closed -- will shutter Jan. 6. Current incarnation was originally scheduled as a sort of six-month victory lap for the tuner, whose initial 16-year Gotham stint made it the third longest-running musical on Broadway. Revival of the Alain Boublil-Claude-Michel Schonberg musical has generally done decent if not spectacular biz since it opened in November 2006, having grossed about $30.3 million in a little over a year on the boards. (That’s a mere drop in the bucket compared to the title’s worldwide gross, which has hit almost $2.9 billion, according to Mackintosh’s office.)"

LabrugTue, 19 Feb 2008, 09:20 am

Meow

Cats would be another.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Director

Home Page
Yahoo Blog Page

stingerTue, 19 Feb 2008, 09:33 am

Art v Entertainment?

I strongly disagree with the comments "theatre is first and foremost for entertainment" and "people go to theatre to be entertained not educated". Any student of the history of theatre would know that was rubbish. Having said that, even Shakespeare was conscious of the need for 'bums on seats'. He developed a formula - a bit of politics for the intellectuals, a bit of romance for the girls, a bit of action for the boys and a bit of smutty comedy for the 'groundlings'. Nowadays, we regard his work as great art and rightly so. It's a bit like Robbie Williams saying "I am not an artist, I am an entertainer. Actors aren't artists - all they do is pretend to be someone else". I disagree with both sentiments. Ssstinger>>>

Walter PlingeTue, 19 Feb 2008, 04:00 pm

Entertain v Education

I am quoting Brecht, he seemed to know what he was talking about in modern theatre.

NaTue, 19 Feb 2008, 04:43 pm

I'm confused... where do

I'm confused... where do you quote Brecht? Mini-monster puppets customised just for you! at Puppets in Melbourne

Walter PlingeTue, 19 Feb 2008, 07:00 pm

Brecht

"From the start it has been theatres business to entertain people, it needs no other passport than fun". Is the Brecht quote.

Walter PlingeTue, 19 Feb 2008, 07:24 pm

Entertainment

I would seem from your reply that you agree that Shakespeare used theatre to entertain at many levels, but entertain none the less. I disagree that "Man in the Street" is talking rubbish. Educate by all means but entertain at all costs, get the two together and then we have great theatre.

NaTue, 19 Feb 2008, 10:25 pm

Ah... it's just... well,

Ah... it's just... well, didn't Brecht do shows that involved the people, in order to allow them to have a voice about current affairs? (I'm probably getting my masters confused, and am thinking of Boal) Anyway to add my two cents: La Mama in Melbourne began as agitprop theatre. That's where David Williamson started. One of the best loved Aussie plays are written by Indigenous playwrights, and cover topics such as the Stolen Generation. Puppets are used in Africa to teach about AIDS and HIV. For it to be just about entertainment is naive at best; theatre is - but not always - so much more. That's why you can't please every audience, and why there's so many different styles and themes used. Because it covers a diverse range of meanings and uses. Mini-monster puppets customised just for you! at Puppets in Melbourne

stingerThu, 21 Feb 2008, 09:06 am

Lies, damn lies and Brechtian quotes.

It is interesting that 'Man in the Street' allegedly quotes Bertholt to support his specious argument that theatre is merely entertainment. BB was the eptome of the opposite view, as can be seen from this quote from wikipedia: " Above all things that theatre was and what he wanted theatre to be, Brecht believed that the theatre's broadest function was to educate. "It is the noblest function that we have found for 'theatre'".[55] Brecht wanted the answer to Lenin’s question ‘Wie und was soll man lernen?’ ('How and what should one learn?'). He created an influential theory of theatre, the epic theatre, wherein a play should not cause the spectator to emotionally identify with the action before him or her, but should instead provoke rational self-reflection and a critical view of the actions on the stage. He believed that the experience of a climactic catharsis of emotion left an audience complacent. Instead, he wanted his audiences to use this critical perspective to identify social ills at work in the world and be moved to go forth from the theatre and effect change." I think the earlier quote was probably really from Robbie Williams! Ssstinger>>>

Walter PlingeThu, 21 Feb 2008, 10:24 am

Please don't get onto Statistics

I think that the quotation I have noted is little more than skin deep. If theatre is just to educate as you suggest then theatre would be a lecture theatre. There is a message in the subtext of nearly all scripts and a message in the main text of others, it would be trite play indeed with no message. As theatres main tool is entertainment that is the tool that is used. All speech makers use theatre in their delivery. At uni some lecturers would send you to sleep whiles others keep you on your toes through out the lecture. With regard to Bertolt Brecht quotes, he made the quote, I do not have the full context of when he made the quote, but I believe the quote was made in context of a spoonful of sugar. I stand by my first statement that theatre is for entertainment. People will take any massage to heart if it sold in a palatable manner.

Paul TreasureTue, 26 Feb 2008, 07:58 pm

Why Cabaret?

"2007 Limelight Theatre - Cabaret // 2008 Kwinana Theatre Workshop - Cabaret Tough act to follow - winner of Best Musical 2007 Finley’s (so why?)" 1. Because we'd already programmed it before Limelight won the Finley 2. Because we'd already changed the season once as someone else was doing the same show within a couple of months (3p Opera) and we WEREN'T going to change it again! 3. Because Kwinana and Wanneroo are almost an hour apart and have totally different catchments! Honestly, has ANYONE who lives North of the River ever gone to see a show at Kwinana? (unless they knew someone in it) It's only diehards like me (us?) who travel that far to see stuff! 4. Because I can guarantee you that anyone who saw Wanneroo's production and then sees Kwinana's will see two totally different shows! 5. (and most importantly) Because once a show reaches classic status our relationship with it changes. We no longer expect to see the "whole" show in one sitting, but expect our understanding and appreciation of the work to grow and adapt as we see different productions... The work is less like a mirror and more like a gem! Needless to say, if I'd thought Limelight's production was close in style and interpretation to what we were going to do I would have reprogrammed Thank you Paul Treasure The soon to be insane director of KTW's Cabaret PS Besides, I've done more than my fair share of stuff no one else has ever touched, I'm allowed to a classic occasionally!

captivateWed, 12 Mar 2008, 05:09 pm

Thoughts of a Theatre-goer

I didn't see limelight's version but am really looking forward to Kwinana's production of cabaret. It is a popular show and will get people in so it was a wise choice for Kwinana. I applaud the decision to put this production on, it requires a lot of ambition and talent, congratulations on possessing both.

Musically SavageThu, 13 Mar 2008, 02:08 am

eh ?!?

Simply put we just don't get the same support from our really tiny population as many other cultures do. They're all too busy watching people chasing small round objects of different shapes across a green playing field. And if they do manage to find themselves in a theatre most would be rather confused if anything unusual was presented - and never return. Companies will just have to keep chipping away at new material until the support is stronger.

... dance lightly my friend, but carry a big stick...

Luke

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