A question...

I'm quite bored at the moment and need a new project. I was wondering whether anyone out there has any ideas for something *big* for the industry. I was thinking: An independent reviewing/awards system - akin to the Green Room awards, or something. Or An online video competition - like stuff you see on Youtube, but more for the local talent in Australia. Anyone got any comments, ideas, thoughts... I'm willing to put in the admin time, but would love to collaborate with anyone out there who is willing.

If the world needs anything less of, it's youtube. There is much to be desired in the australian entertainment industry in terms of quality of acting. Let's just say that If my aim was to win an australian award for acting (let alone a wa award) I would be setting my sights far far below my ability. When the largest entertainment export is a TV soap, something is very very wrong with the industry. You want a project? Find a way to bring the australian creative standard up to speed with europe and the US.

Ok, first of all, I should clarify: I'm not suggesting that we need more crappy Youtube type videos by people who are just stupid, and think their stupid antics will win them praise. What I meant was that local professional (and perhaps amateur) performers/directors/producers can submit short videos (ok, here I should have said a la indie short film festivals) which can be voted on. And I wasn't specific in the requirements, but I would naturally create guidelines which would only see good quality films by local performers (not the average joe with a camera) be eligible. As for your last sentence - I'm sorry. I'm not the government. I can't (and don't) provide a large budget, nor can I increase local funding. I can't bring the standard up; and certainly not by myself, without the aid of other people. This is why I'm trying to find a new project which the larger Aussie theatre community can be involved in. And I have to disagree. We have a lot of amazing talent that beats any European and US talent. It's just that not a lot of it gets seen, talked about, or advertised. Bringing the creative standard up has a lot of variables, one of which is the lacklustre effort of local industry people to get stuck in and change things. While I agree with your comments, they are hardly helpful. You want the standard lifted? How about making a suggestion of how we go about doing it, with a limited budget, limited resources, and limited time? My idea of the awards for instance; I would design them so that more of the fringe and undervalued companies would be reviewed and awarded. It would also be an incentive to local companies to improve their act. Eg. The only VIC awards (the Green Room awards) have pretty much disappeared. So much for the industry congratulating local talent, and so much for encouraging companies to be the best they can be. As I said - any other ideas? Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.freewebs.com/puppetsinmelbourne

One of the principal reasons that creative standards may seem to be below UK and US (after money) is the size of our industry. To make a living in this country our performers writers and so on largely have to have other jobs. This means that they have less time to hone and develop their talents because the time performers etc in other countrys spend doing that ours spend earning a living, paying the rent. The top end of the industry maybe 5% can do it the rest can't. Obviously we produce the talent, how many Australians are earning a good living in the UK and US. Oh and if you are so talented you would need to drop your standards to win an award who are you? Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Interesting idea. I am thinking about where to go with it. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Working at Arts Hub was a perfect intro to the jobs situation. Every week the UK site loaded up about 200 new jobs. (On average). The Aussie site - about half that, if we were lucky. And most of those Aussie jobs were not paid, whereas the UK ones were more than likely paid. We can't compare industries. There's too much difference in location, size, job availability, etc. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.freewebs.com/puppetsinmelbourne

I'm thinking that something communal is the best way to go. Something that everyone can either do/comment on/participate in/review... etc. I had plenty of ideas during 'The Prompt Copy' that I never got around to doing, but most of them required a lot of admin and a lot of money. But some of the ideas are scale-able (like the reviewing thing). Actually the reviewing/awards could be done quite easily. Take this site; all you need is a forum for reviews. Perhaps a grading system. Anyone can submit a review. Anyone can vote for that show. You could have a people's choice award, as well as awards given out by a small panel of industry people. The thing is all done on the net, which means no problems of including shows from other states. And anyone involved in the show gets the added bonus of a) promoting themselves with the reviewing system, and b) the possibility of a good review for later publicity. It costs very little (I can easily set something up on my domain name), and is fairly easy to run admin-wise. It's a thought anyway... Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.freewebs.com/puppetsinmelbourne

Where are you located Sydney, Melbourne etc?

I'm in Melbourne. But I'm familiar with the needs/wants/ideas of other states. (Again, any project that I do can easily be done for other states via the use of the net) Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.freewebs.com/puppetsinmelbourne

Which seems to have the least involvement on this site of all the states. I am now probably going to be attacked viciously. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Okay then how about this: Find a way to educate the public about the amount of work involved in becoming a recognised actor. 90% of 'actors' (from personal experience, and I might point out I am being highly conservative) drop out of courses and/or cease studying. But if you talk the talk, you damn well better walk the walk. Case in point: "I want to be an actor" What they really mean: "I want the benefits of being a recognised actor without putting the 4,5,6,7+ years of intense study, training and industry experience that's required"

What? How is that going to improve the quality of the Australian industry? And how am I realistically supposed to do that? Yes, of course there are a lot of drop-outs. But this has in part to do with the rise of reality TV and the lack of guts from local programmers. I am not a programmer. I have not worked in TV or film. I certainly can't influence anyone over that. And as for educating people... that's part of what I have been doing on the site. Hell, I'm usually the one who posts to all the zillion and one threads of 'how do I'. Forgive me for being abrasive, but again, this is not a suggestion I can implement. It's more of a complaint about the industry. Yes, let's educate the young/emerging ones. But part of the lack of education out there comes from the fact that the industry is so inclusive. I recently made a comment on this site about the lack of mentorship opportunities - perhaps this is what we could do? Or do you have anything specific in mind that would encourage more educated actors out there? (And here I must point out, I want to do something not just for actors. There are plenty of technical issues out there too) Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

that there are so many drop outs. the industry is overfull already and not just here. We already produce far too many graduates of acting courses and the vast majority never find work. This is true in the UK, where I have experience, the US, where I have friends, and for all I know Europe as well. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

And in some ways the naivete is a good thing. Young and emerging artists quickly learn through experience and education (whether formal or otherwise) that theatre/TV/film isn't for them. In other industries, you can quickly establish yourself in a job or career path, only to discover later that you don't like it. In our industry, it is very easy to figure these things out before committing too much time, effort and money. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

So I take it then no one has any? Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

But I'm still thinking about it. Got a bit of time on my hands for a couple of weeks. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Cool, thanks. I've still got some other ideas, but less practical ones, so I'd love some help! Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

I really like that idea. Think it would be cool if this website or something similar established a system like that. Putting on our first public production means I doubt we'll be noticed by an organisation like the lyrebirds but if there was a group of people on here etc that went round watched peoples plays reviewed and then gave a nomination for an award or something, that would be great! Sean ______________________________________________________________ Currently working on: "The Ultimate Broadway Musical" The Three-Person, Audience Interactive, Little Bit Of Improv, Mini-Musical event of 2007.

If you set up an awards thing I'd be up to go see shows and review etc. I think it's a great idea. In fact anything you decide to put forward I'm up for, if it's possible for me to do. Count me in! As for improving the industry- America has Broadway, the UK have West End we need an area with a name like that, a theatre district. I have considered knocking out the shops along South Bank and replacing them with theatre. Then Australia could have the 'South Bank' to rival West End and Broadway. Now...that is more joking, people I'm not some wrecking ball don't go hating me!!! But then I realised that are near there is doing pretty good theatre wise. The Arts centre on the corner, The Palms at Crown, Malthouse Theatre complex down the road, VCA, there's a new music recital and performance space being built. There's a little district growing there. Anyway... Now for ideas... let's see. How about getting a group of people together from all different aspects of theatre, all different styles etc. Have a playwright and a director, actors, choreographers etce etc and create something new. Maybe find some up and coming people in these areas and get them together and have them put on a show to get an opportunity to experience putting something on. Maybe if you can get some bigger people in the industry who can be inspiring and kind of teachers. Kind of like a work experience program...I read on another thread that we lacked that 'good' work experience in the industry let's maybe create something like that. If I think of something else I'll post it. Sean ______________________________________________________________ Currently working on: "The Ultimate Broadway Musical" The Three-Person, Audience Interactive, Little Bit Of Improv, Mini-Musical event of 2007.

Great! I agree a reviewing thing is the best way to go, because that's the easiest thing that would potentially involve anyone and everyone (any age, any experience, all you'd need is an internet connection). I know what you mean about the theatre district; I work just up the road from VCA, and I'm always sorely tempted to go see a show on lunchbreak. As for your second suggestion, you are almost spot on with a project I was going to start up a while ago. The idea was that it would take a select group of emerging artists every year and get them to produce their own show professionally, with the aid of local mentors. Unfortunately, it's a mammoth task both for finances, time and administration. And this is somewhat done at St Martins, only more 'acting' focused. So that's on my to do list for when I have some money. %) But a work experience program is an interesting way to put it. I don't really have the contacts to put something like that together, but it would be interesting to create an 'angel' work experience program, where you put your name on a wishlist (I want to do...) and someone else can put their name on a wantlist (I want to offer someone else the opportunity to do...), and then just match everyone up.... I wonder whether that would work? Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

The more I think about it, the more I like the reviewing idea. We could give it a cool name; all the awards are 'Tony', 'Webby', 'Grammy', etc. And we could hand out proper awards. I've already got a list started (just in those few minutes between posts) of how things could work and ways we could run it online. I could easily set up a site for 'beta' testing within a couple of months... earlier depending on how heavy work gets. And then all that would be needed is some tweaking and a lot of word-of-mouth publicity. The tough part is getting people to submit reviews. For which we may have to find some willing people to start the ball rolling; and then hope that others will catch on and add their own. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

I admit I liked the review idea when you mentioned it in the first place, the reason I've kept quiet is because I wasn't sure of the mechanics. It has to be national and we would need people in each state. You will then also run into the issue of people in the industry reviewing each other. Can either turn into love fest or a in crowd club. Still very possible. Have a look at the reviews page on The Adelaide Theatre Guide. www.theatreguide.com.au Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

I'm on board Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Yes, it would be tricky. This is where I ran into a problem getting reviews for TPC. It was hard to get people to do it in different cities. But this is somewhat different, because you could allow anyone to write a review... not just theatre people, but regular shmoes. I know this then gets into the issue of 'well, then the reviews would be worthless, because they wouldn't be well-written, etc.' However, I've been researching a similar concept lately for work, and there is an obvious answer. Ratings. Sites like Slashdot (basically a news/opinions site) use a combination of moderation and ratings to improve their news. For instance, we could implement a reviewing system whereby we have a panel of people from around the country who could moderate to begin with. Reviews can be rated, and if the review gets a high rating, the reviewer's own personal rating goes up (and vice versa). As we gain more reviewers, those with the highest ratings have the option of becoming moderators. How easy that is for me to implement on an out-of-the-box web package/program is the question. But the point is that it no longer becomes the industry reviewing the industry, but anyone who's seen a show reviewing the industry. And it cuts down on the whole problem of not having enough willing reviewers in each city. The whole point is to encourage your own audience to submit a review - which then goes into the running for an award. .... Yeah, see this is where more thought needs to go in, because I know already I'm coming across paradoxical issues. I think any reviewing system will ultimately be flawed, but one which gets the audience involved will increase its chances of being successful.... I don't know. Thinking out loud here. :shrug: %) Thanks for the ATG link. I always forget that site exists, and then when I find it again, I'm glad I did. I like how they also do schools shows, etc. I was thinking along the same lines; creating a professional, amateur, schools, etc. categories. And yes, of course, it must be an Aussie company. (There's the other thing... there is a huge potential to tap into reviewing schools shows. I've found that people are more than happy to give up a couple of tix just to have someone review their show. I can imagine the excitement of any school winning a local theatre award, that is peer-reviewed) ... I'm all excited myself thinking of this, and I'm tempted to get onto my webhost and see what kind of programs I could use to create this. (No Naomi, first work out what it does, then work out how to do it!!! :) ) Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

This is very exciting. I like the angel idea too. Yeh the hard part of the work experience thing is the financial side to it. I do really like the reviewing thing too, but I suppose getting them might be an issue. I think we'd also need a few people per state- from different areas, to see different plays. There could be a statewide section and then a national section with winners of state awards going on to national etc. Sean ______________________________________________________________ Currently working on: "The Ultimate Broadway Musical" The Three-Person, Audience Interactive, Little Bit Of Improv, Mini-Musical event of 2007.

Ooh, I like the 'statewide to national' idea. That's neato -because it'd be like winning two awards if you went on to national. As for getting people involved, read my reply to Tony above. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

Ooooo I like the school shows idea. The other point is with user reviews you get normal people giving you the honest truth about a show. Say it's their first show and someone stands out to them- thats something. A big well known reviewer who's seen hundreds of plays might skip that because they didn't like the lighting so I think it could even be a more realistic approach. How many times have you read the review of a movie that only got a few stars and then loved the film- because you don't look at it so technically or you don't compare it to others you enjoy it for what it is. This could work here too. ______________________________________________________________ Currently working on: "The Ultimate Broadway Musical" The Three-Person, Audience Interactive, Little Bit Of Improv, Mini-Musical event of 2007.

Quote Na: As for your second suggestion, you are almost spot on with a project I was going to start up a while ago. The idea was that it would take a select group of emerging artists every year and get them to produce their own show professionally, with the aid of local mentors. Kind of like Jamie Oliver with his 15 project around the world. ______________________________________________________________ Currently working on: "The Ultimate Broadway Musical" The Three-Person, Audience Interactive, Little Bit Of Improv, Mini-Musical event of 2007.

What I would do is construct a 'how-to' guide on writing a review, so that even people who don't know how to do a decent review can read it and learn from it. Obviously, they don't have to use it, but it would help. What we also have to remember is that there are hundreds of school kids out there who are learning how to write reviews as part of school assignments; and kids who go see shows just to do the assignment. This is what I mean by the community aspect and trying to involve everyone. But you also have to avoid the 'Wikipedia' issue, which is that a system like that is vulnerable to vandalism, hoaxes, mean-spirited edits, etc. That's why a ratings system for both the reviews and the reviewers is so important, as it tends to cut down on issues like that. (On a side note, Uncyclopedia is a hilarious take-off of Wikipedia, and Citizendium is created by a former Wikipedia founder who wanted to encourage less vandalism and more honesty. They are two sites that I recommend everyone use. Especially Uncyclopedia for the hilarity.) Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

Oh, if only I had the money to do it... I had all sorts of guidelines and details worked out. But alas... *sigh* Maybe I should just become a multimillion dollar chef... :P (Not that anyone cares, but I'm going to sleep now. If anyone has any fantastic additions to... add... they will just have to wait for me to respond tomorrow morning.... Mind is racing with thoughts now; I'm sure I'll have a billion things to add to the conversation tomorrow) Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

Can't wait to continue the chat tomorrow after school. Have a good nights sleep. Night everyone Sean ______________________________________________________________ Currently working on: "The Ultimate Broadway Musical" The Three-Person, Audience Interactive, Little Bit Of Improv, Mini-Musical event of 2007.

Another site that is worth looking at is Talk Fringe. It was set up two years ago so punters could revue fringe shows. It's at www.talkfringe.com Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Thanks! I'll have to check it out when I have a moment. ... I've been thinking a bit about the awards, and I'm sure we can come up with something good as a basis for it to work. Everyone think of a name for the awards. I'm going to see if I can find a suitable web program to run it, and put a subdomain on my site to test it on. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

The Popular Theatre Awards 'The Poppies" Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Oooh... I like it! But I'm wondering if that name is already taken for something... I'll have to do a search. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

If we used it we would have to be careful about Remembrance day. No, I withdraw the idea. It is a bit too close to the bone. Thats what comes of getting on line before I'm really awake. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

It's also the name of both an Aussie and a UK band. (I liked it though!) Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

What about 'Chookas' as the name... The Chookas Awards. Give your congratulations/thanks to theatre artists around the country by reviewing them at Chookas. What do you think? (Though the name 'Chookas' is used for a children's festival in Melbourne, at Gasworks, but it's technically 'Chookas festival', and so long as you make a disclaimer that we're not related to them, it should be ok) Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

Provided that there is no catch with the festival. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Yep, but that can be easily solved by contacting them and asking them if they mind. Generally people are ok with things like that so long as you have a disclaimer stating that the two things aren't related. I could ask them and see.... (I'm off home now, but will be back online - fingers crossed, I am getting a new pair of glasses and may not be able to see for a bit - later for more ideas) Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

Chookas is funny because in my show 'Frank The Plucker' the chicken factories competed for a 'Choocca' the 'Certificate Honouring the Overall Outstanding Chicken Company of Australia'. Also was theatrical. Poppies...dunno about that one...sounds like something you do at an opium bar. Let's think about it...word association or such...theatre- there is the performance theatre and then the operating theatre- Doccies? hahaha Spotlight awards...might have an issue with Fox Spotlight Pictures though- but they could be the 'spotties'. Spotlight has good connotations too. If you are in the spotlight you're good...I dunno have they been used before though. The 'Aaaw's' Audience Appreciation Awards...yes the w from awards made it in. If it was on a txt message scheme you could win a 'Texta' a pun on the felt tip marker and texting in. You want a cool little icon for them...like the Logie dude or Oscar...hmmmm maybe that will become our inspiration. ______________________________________________________________ Currently working on: "The Ultimate Broadway Musical" The Three-Person, Audience Interactive, Little Bit Of Improv, Mini-Musical event of 2007.

Suggested Applaud Awards. What abbreviation? "The Appy's" Winning one would make you appy. There would need to be tech awards as well. Same name? Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Mmm, the name is a tough one. Haven't thought of anything new since I last posted. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

I started thinking about award categories. We've already got 'school', 'amateur' and 'professional'. Then from there, we divide them into acting awards, directing, technical, etc. I'm wondering whether we need a specific distinction for mainstream theatre (ie. State Companies, etc.), and one for the fringe/emerging... No luck as yet on testing anything on my site, as there's a little glitch with my hosting at the moment. (Nothing major thank goodness, I think I've just used up my disk space) I'll let you know when I've got something happening there. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

Here have an 'appy' award... :? I'm not sure... I willing to be convinced though! Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

Ok was thinking about it last night. As voting depends a lot on audience reviews how about the 'Ovation' awards. When an audience really like something they give a standing ovation...so it's like the same thing you get an 'Ovie' when you win. That was my late night thought of last night. It would make a cool statue figure too, of a figure standing up applauding above its head. ______________________________________________________________ Currently working on: "The Ultimate Broadway Musical" The Three-Person, Audience Interactive, Little Bit Of Improv, Mini-Musical event of 2007.

I think I like 'Ovie' better than 'Appy'. Actual awards is another thing to think about; with awards being given nationally, how would you give them out? Would you have a national awards night held in one town - which makes the thing expensive to attend? Would you have 'virtual' awards, or just send a statue out to the winners without having an actual ceremony? Hopefully by the end of next week I can have some sort of start on the website - my webhost is still looking into the problem so until then I can't do anything. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip

Could you possibly call them the "Limelight Awards"... come to think of it its probably already taken anyway! :)

i probably should have looked that one up before posting because whaddya know they already exist! SORRY!