AUDITION FEE: anyone heard of one?

Sun, 15 Oct 2006, 04:47 pm

aimee joy29 posts in thread

I have just been gob-smacked by the request for money from me to audition for a production. This has never happened to me before, so before I judge it, I am wondering what more experienced thespians think? I also want to add that there is a possibility that the high cost of the genre (opera) contributes to the payment request. The company also has support from industry professionals, which could make the difference, presuming that many of the coaches are paid to help the chosen cast reach the required standard. Open slather, what do you think? -Aimee

Thread (29 posts)

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aimee joySun, 15 Oct 2006, 04:47 pm

LabrugSun, 15 Oct 2006, 04:54 pm

Sounds a bit odd

Sounds a little odd to me. I would have thought it is similar to Getting an Agent. You shouldn't have to pay for registration. In some countries it is actually illegal do charge such a fee. I suppose you need to know exactly what the fee is for and if it sounds reasonable enough, then you take you choice or chance. There may be an actual service that is being paid for in addition to the audition itself.

An audition is like a job interview and how many of those have we ever paid for? Hopefully none.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
who can also sing ... and occasionaly dance
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director
UPstageWA Rep

http://au.geocitieies.com/labrug

aimee joySun, 15 Oct 2006, 05:01 pm

Thanks

Thank you muchly, Labrug, I have read your other blogs on agents and this is what I suspected. Even more puzzling is that it is a "training" company for young singers..

KirileeSun, 15 Oct 2006, 05:01 pm

Wrong

I remember once I had to pay for an audition, however it was to become a member for the company - though believe me, I won't do it again. It's a cheap skate way to get more members. Really sly... *twitch*

aimee joySun, 15 Oct 2006, 05:25 pm

For the benefit of others.......re: audition fee

Labrug and I went to the chat box, where he explained that "training" companies are different, they probably cover some expense or other, but I should ask where my money would go to. He also added that it IS still a little unusual, but he would take the risk, seeing it was only $20.

Neville TalbotSun, 15 Oct 2006, 05:27 pm

audition fees

Hi Aimee, Audition fees are quite common in the music world- in the youth orchestra area in particular. If you want to join the WA Youth Orchestra, or the Australian Youth Orchestra, Godwana voices etc. you have to pay a non-refundable audition fee. The important point to note is that every one of these enterprises is a not-for-profit. These fees are to help offset costs for auditions (e.g. AYO has around 800 audition around Australia, and has to hire about 13 professional auditioners to travel around Australia and pays people to manage each venue etc.) These organisations are also constitutionally bound to provide education for the participants/members. Audition fees are massively subsidised. I don't personally think an audition fee for these sorts of orgs is too much, especially if it is only to offset real costs for the process. However, if the business is making money, and even better- making it from your endeavours- I am a little wary. This is for a show though- sounds on the fishy side to me. Who is the company? How much? You can email me privately if you don't want to splash it in public! Follow Jeff's advice- find out what you're getting and make the personal call. I spent a small fortune in my time with the WAYO and AYO, but got 2 international tours, chances to play with some of the world's greatest conductors, and unbelievable training. Not to mention a lot of very good friends who are now my national network of contacts... hope that helps! Nev It's the simple things stupid...

Walter PlingeMon, 16 Oct 2006, 03:18 pm

Is that out of the ordinary??

I hear GRADs do something fairly similar which is why I don't audition for those SOBs.

NaMon, 16 Oct 2006, 03:24 pm

It should be noted that

It should be noted that many amateur companies ask for a fee at auditions. This is not an auditioning fee, but a membership fee which is paid by all members (techs, directors, FOH, etc) of the group. The fees often pay for initial outlay on props, sets, costumes, venue hire, insurance and so on. Quite often membership fees are relied on heavily by amateur companies, and should not denigrate their work or their reputation. This does not mean that you should pay for a professional, co-op or fringe audition, nor is it the same as attending a class as part of an auditioning process (though I'm no expert on those, so I wouldn't really have a clue). The Prompt Copy Networking emerging theatre professionals www.thepromptcopy.com Sticky Apple Legs http://stickyapplelegs.artsblogs.com Puppets in Melbourne www.freewebs.com/puppetsinmelbourne

LabrugMon, 16 Oct 2006, 04:14 pm

GRADs do not charge

I have done several shows with GRADs and have never been charged an audition fee. Ever. There is, to my knowledge, no such thing support by GRADs. They do have a membership requirement if you are acutally cast in a play and that is pretty standard - mainly for insurance purposes and such.

I think you may have a few wires crossed.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
who can also sing and dance
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director
UPstageWA Rep

Home Page

KirileeMon, 16 Oct 2006, 05:47 pm

I second that. GRADS

I second that. GRADS doesn't charge to audition - at least not to my knowledge; and I've auditioned twice with them.

Walter PlingeMon, 16 Oct 2006, 08:21 pm

Grads

I was told you had to pay regardless as to whether you were successful at the audition or not. There must be crossed wires.

Walter PlingeMon, 16 Oct 2006, 08:22 pm

Grads

I was told you had to pay regardless as to whether you were successful at the audition or not. There must be crossed wires.

Grant MalcolmMon, 16 Oct 2006, 10:15 pm

Member-only auditions

Walter is at least partially correct.

Some time back there was a well-meaning, if in my view misguided, move to stipulate that only members were allowed to audition for GRADS productions. For at least one production I understand that auditionees were told they had to sign up as members before they were allowed to audition.

It's uncommon but not unheard of; New Theatre in Sydney is one prominent community theatre company that has member-only auditions.

But for a group like GRADS with an active membership that barely spans the fingers on my two hands... I'm glad sanity prevailed.

:-)

Cheers
Grant

--
Director, actor and administrator of this website

Walter PlingeTue, 17 Oct 2006, 08:27 am

Grads

A-ha! At least I was partially right!

LabrugTue, 17 Oct 2006, 08:32 am

I never

Thank you Grant. I never realised GRADs had done that and thank those that be that sanity DID prevail. As is very evident by Mr "Wlater Plinge", such a move would be more deterent than productive, why become a member when you only have a CHANCE of being a part of the show.

I certainly would think twice.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
who can also sing and dance
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director
UPstageWA Rep

Home Page

Walter PlingeTue, 17 Oct 2006, 12:01 pm

Grads auditions

The production was 'Blood Brothers' a couple of years ago. We were told by GRADS that we had to pay the membership fee just to audition. Obviously more people auditoned than there were parts available, so some of us paid to be members and ended up just contributing to their production costs. I also purchased a ticket to see the show, so I guess I contributed twice. Not really fair to charge. The reason given was that people had been given parts in the past and not ever paid the membership fee, so they wanted to make sure everyone paid up front this time.

aimee joyTue, 17 Oct 2006, 10:30 pm

THANK YOU ALL

I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer from the outset that the company are aimed towards "young artist development", opera's in-between training ground for conservatorium graduates. In this light I tend to think Neville's comparison to AYO and WAYO is pretty close. I don't wish to "splash" their name around, because I don't think they've done anything wrong. The company have existed for at least 3 years and have a lot of well known names giving them support, so I'm going to audition. Perhaps they will also be able to spare a few words of advice for an opera trainee for the audition price...

Walter PlingeWed, 18 Oct 2006, 11:13 am

audition charges are wrong

No one should ever have to pay for an audition ... no matter what the justification. An audition is a "job interview" even training is a job interview. You are there to show what you can do not suppliment the auditioning company's bottom line. There are so many people wishing to break into this world of entertainment that companiies try to take advantage of people by charging an audition fee. It is totally unaccceptable. All people who charge an audition fee are con artists who only think of themselves and new ways to make a quick buck.

LogosWed, 18 Oct 2006, 11:36 am

Lets Be Fair

I agree that no-one ever should have to pay to audition. Yes Neville I do understand the process you went through and how valuable it was to you and how it resulted in work but none the less it is a job interview. It is however very unfair to call this company con artists particularly as we don't know anything about them. The questions I would ask are: If I am unsucessful will I receive a written report explaining why. This could justify the charge especially as the company is a training one. Are they a government funded non profit organisation or do the principals make a profit personally running the company. If the latter I would seriously resist paying a charge unless as stated I was to receive a report in writing explaining why I failed. I am not sure that the various Uni's should charge an audition fee especially as students now end up with debts more closely resembling a mortgage than anything else. If you are satisfied that you are receiving value for the fee you pay then pay it. If not, don't. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Walter PlingeWed, 18 Oct 2006, 06:29 pm

If it helps, i have had to

If it helps, i have had to pay to audition for several not-for- profit and amature productions in the past, and in my experience the fee (which is generally $5-$10)is refunded if you are not offered a role. If you are offered a role, the fee is for company membership. Goodluck!

Craig K EdwardsThu, 19 Oct 2006, 02:26 pm

Well, the companies that pay you don't charge audition fees so..

I've worked on 4 WA Opera Company productions (no I can't sing, it's as a lowly supernumero:-))They pay quite decently, even for the supernumeros (actually I think the chorus singers get ripped off big-time given that they only get paid around the same as us, but it is still union-compliant contracts). And they have never ever ever required payment for an audition. Nor have I ever heard of Opera Australia charging for an audition. As far as I know, anyone with a voice can audition to join the chorus so long as they apply at the right time of year. So why on earth waste your time with a company that makes you pay to audition? Frankly if the Youth Opera etc make you pay a fee, that is utterly disgraceful and a sign of shonky management (which may well flow on to artistic quality). If anything they should be paying YOU to give your time auditioning (callbacks for advertisements do just that). You wouldn't pay money to go to a job interview - don't be a sucker and pay to audition. Not when you can audition to better companies, for better gigs, for an equitable amount, ie for free. It's a a bit more forgiveable for an amateur company to do it, but only because the money is going back into more productions and opportunities, but I still think that its a misguided approach and there are plenty of great amateur companies who don't operate in that fashion. However, make sure you look behind the title of 'amateur' to make sure that it IS actually a non-profit incorporated association. There are always a few 'amateur' companies operating that are only amateur for the performers (whilst the producer rakes in a profit) - frankly I'd put them as more likely to charge for auditions than any of the ITA members.

StrangejuiceFri, 20 Oct 2006, 12:39 am

speaking of payments -

speaking of payments - Craig - what is your opinion on film makers who promise big $$$ once the film (that is "guaranteed" to be successful) takes off. So you act in their film on speculation - then you never hear from them again.

LabrugFri, 20 Oct 2006, 09:27 am

Guarantees

Pardon me for cutting in Craig - to Strangejuice, and anyone else looking at getting involved in film projects.

BE VERY SUSPICIOUS of any promises that a film will be a guaranteed success without somesort of demonstateable contract arrangements, like with a reputable production company. There is simply no such thing. Success of a film is based purely upon the number of people who will eventually pay to watch it.

This "Pick-up" line is used to try and convince actors to take the risk. More often than not, what has been described in Strangejuices posting is exactly what happens.

Note I say be suspicious, not avoid all-together. I am aware that some projects have been sold on this promise and have actually kept it, but these would tend to be the exception to the rule. It's like finding an agent or attending an audition, make sure you are armed with knowledge first as to what your rights are and what is considered reasonable expectations.

If anything, if you have suffered through such a fate Strangejuice, you can chalk it up to experience; experience of working on the thing and experience that there are sharks out there.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
who can also sing and dance
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director
UPstageWA Rep

Home Page

StrangejuiceFri, 20 Oct 2006, 02:02 pm

I have never experienced it no- I am very upfront in regards to payment, plus I am a composer, not an actor. I am against spec work on many levels. And who is ever going to want to pay someone who is willing to work for free? You are worth as much as you charge. However, the audition fee thing and the speculative work offers film makers give you both seem to be attached to the same desire to scam naive hopefuls in an industry full of desperate people with dreams. It is unethical, and there is noone to take them to task on it.

LabrugFri, 20 Oct 2006, 02:29 pm

Task to Take

Strangejuice is partly right.

There are agencies that could "take them to task" as you say. The main problem is getting the proof. If you verbally agree to do a thing and then get stung, unless the is some sort of proof that can be collected, you do not have much to go with. You will get that sympathic look and told to not get caught next time.

If however, you have a signed document stating simply and clearly the broken promises, then you do a legal avenue to follow.

And do not forge the Media and Story hungry Journalists. Many a shonky dealer has been take to task on Telly. While legal avenues may not be able to help out due to lacking material to go with, if the media catch wind of any shonky deals, you can rest assured they they may do something. Again it has to fairly big to attract that sort of attention.

Let's face it, if you are stupid enough to enter into an agreement without any proof of it, then getting stung once may help you to avoid the same mistake again. If you don't learn from your mistakes, then more fool you.

Then there are those that have the audacity (or stupidity maybe) to take the law into their own hands with overt attempts at defamation, misinformation and slanderish actions. Many an honest agency has been hampered by an ex-client with a big chip. Many individuals have had the reputation smeared into muck by false accusations and gossip. The message here is about the strength of gossip. If an honest victim began a campaign of "gossip" mongering, they could bring strife to their target.

Now I do not advocate this latter course of action as it more than likely will get you into more hot water then you can handle. The truely best advice is to chalk it up to experience (I think I said that earlier) and concentrate your efforts on moving your career forward rather than wasting it trying to bring down anothers. Keep your focus on your goals and don't let set-backs hold you back. There are as many honest Bobs out there as there are shonky Dans.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
who can also sing and dance
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director
UPstageWA Rep

Home Page

NaFri, 20 Oct 2006, 02:44 pm

As for taking it to the

As for taking it to the media, Arts Hub recently dealt with a somewhat similar situation. A performer called Arts Hub to report a producer; the producer had allegedly created a show for charity, and while the performer was casually talking to someone from the charity, asked if they had received the money from the show. The charity said no. Arts Hub couldn't find any proof of any payment to the charity by the producer, and the producer did not comment/could not be contacted for a response. While this kind of investigative journalism can only go so far towards proving/disproving the allegations, it does shed light on the issues and loopholes of our unstable and largely unchecked (in terms of business dealings) industry. Taking it to the media can help raise concerns, create discussion, and allow your voice to be heard. Arts Hub dealt with this questionable person in a very fair way; trying desperately to contact that person, with no result, they also consulted heavily on legal issues (slander, libel), and talked to as many people possible about what was alleged to have happened with the money, before publishing the article. However, I believe these things should be better left to the lawyers and union officials who deal with these things all the time. Arts Law Centre of Australia as well, since they are set up specifically to deal with arts legal issues. The Prompt Copy Networking emerging theatre professionals www.thepromptcopy.com Sticky Apple Legs http://stickyapplelegs.artsblogs.com Puppets in Melbourne www.freewebs.com/puppetsinmelbourne

Neville TalbotSun, 22 Oct 2006, 10:50 pm

non-profit training

An organisation such as the WAYo (or WAYMA as they are now called) or the AYO simply don't have the dough to absorb the audition costs for their programs. Paying a fee in some way culls all those not actually serious about preparing, and assists in meeting the expenses of an enormous audition process (again- we are talking about many hundreds, not 30 or 40 people). They exist exclusively for training young musicians, and the figures show up for themselves with a large percentage of members of every professional Australian orchestra coming from AYO... neither org makes money, and even the staff involved are not renumerated well enough for the effort involved. paying to audition for a small show seems wrong to me on the other hand. If you don't budget to cover the costs of a day or two of auditions, then you are in trouble in more ways than one... on the subject of the WA Opera. YOu are not auditioning for training- it IS a job, paid, with the applicable professional expectations and requirements. They do provide (limited) training for those who push for it, but it is a pro company and you are a pro performer. I won't get onto a discussion of pay rates, as that has been as issue in dispute earlier this year (and I am a member of this chorus, and not the person who has been in the negotiation process with management). This situation evolved mostly due to inaction and apathy amongst chorus for many years, and almost zero equity membership. Needless to say, a lack of union membership does not necessarily create an environment of generosity. ;-) Beware the new IR legislation people. It won't avoid the arts industry. Especially when the costs mount... I believe artists and production crew will be amongst the first to have their pay and conditions slashed. I can't see the hire companies, venues, printers etc. cutting prices to 'help out'! and it will start at the 'small' end of town first. I should note that the WAO does pay accepted AWARD conditions (now) though. Don't want to get into trouble :-) nev It's the simple things stupid...

Craig K EdwardsThu, 26 Oct 2006, 12:44 am

dodgy film promises

Regarding the comment re independent movie producers promising future 'big payments' for film: I agree that it is a dodgy way of operating. Personally I've never been promised 'big payments', although I have done films on a co-op basis on a number of occasions. On some of those occasions the producer has certainly had a misguided idea of the film's potential profitability - frankly I'd take any promise of substantial payment outside a studio or screenwest-funded picture as a sign of extreme naivety on behalf of the producer. In terms of what I think of the producers who make promises of payments on those terms - well, if they are 'promising' payment then that is simply a lie and a fraud - the chances of even a good film made under such circumstances making a substantial profit is very small, the number of people working on a film is very large, and film being what it is anyone who has even done a few shorts is well aware that those projects are great for fun and experience but very rarely produce a cinema-worthy piece (the number of variables on the techinal side to pull of a decent film is massive - there really isn't any feature film equivalent of the solid budget shows a good amatuer theatre company can produce). But it depends as well on the producer's intent and their age/level of experience. I had great fun a few years back doing a godawful feature film that was written, produced and funded by a couple of young guys who were still going through film school. They thought they were making a big-time movie: I (and most of the people who had any experience who were in the project) knew from the outset that there was no way that it was going to make money and just wanted more experience in front of a camera. The movie went as I expected, no payment resulted, but frankly I still got exactly what I expected. The project was a brilliant learning resource for the young filmmakers involved, and I did a large number of increasingly better short films (some festival, but also some just for fun on quiet weekends) with them over the next few years. In that case the exorbitant promises was just the forgiveable naivety of an ambitious but wellmeaning couple of students, and I have no problem working on that sort of project so long as they respect the value of the actors' time. On the other hand, I've seen a number of people claiming to be about to make a feature film who advertise their auditions with promises of making someone a star etc. On EVERY occasion that I've done any research into the person's identity, resources and experience it has become utterly obvious that the person simply doesn't know what is involved in making a film, and the project probably isn't going to even get off the ground. As for the lack of contact afterwards? Again, I haven't had that myself, but I'd guess it is more likely due to producer-ineptitude (i.e. their burying the project once they realise that on their current resources it will take years to complete post-shooting editing and production) than malevolence. Having said that it still isn't acceptable - films are often a serious time-committment and it isn't excuseable to get someone to work on your pet project on the basis of a false promise. To play devil's advocate though...I've also ran into actors who have been upset because they got exactly what they were promised - i.e. a profit share agreement, where the producer said up front there was next to nil chance of a substantial profit, but the actor just didn't want to hear that and had substituted their own expectations of wealth and stardom. Again on the devil's advocate approach: - most profit-share THEATRE productions only pay a few hundred dollars for an outstanding success, and nil-payments and very low payment aren't uncommon. And I've seen some VERY experienced theatre producers promote the promise of payment as a reason to work on their company's profit-share production. Furthermore, most of those theatre companies take great pains to describe themselves as professional even though there is no possibility (even in a sell-out season) for a performer to make a living weekly income out of the production. Not saying that these are bad companies - I've happily worked for many before and I hope to continue to do so - but I wouldn't necessarily confine the issue of over-exaggerated promises on profit-share arrangements to the film scene. So yeah, I guess it depends on what is promised. I'd suggest that anytime someone works on a longer than 20 min film that isn't properly funded, then never ever do it because you think your going to produce some indie hit. One of the nice things about film is that you CAN just go have some fun making a short on the weekend, or doing a feature over a long period of time, and get some valuable experience acting in front of a camera. That's a perfectly legitimate reason for doing a film - if you ever get the chance to dig up (via the net or whatever) the earliest student/indie films of some of the bigger hollywood directors you'll see that they are almost all fairly horrible, it's simply the learning curve that film-making often needs. But if you aren't getting paid as you work, then you're not likely to get paid later.

LabrugThu, 26 Oct 2006, 08:52 am

Great Reply

After reading your posting Craig, I re-read mine and realised it sounded somewhat like a jilted lover with a chip on his shoulder! LOL LOL

Craig's comments are very true even though I do believe that there are still enough shonky opperators out there. Having a healthy attitude to a theatrical or film production (in otherwords, doing it for the experience more than the financial reward) is pretty dang important. I myself became involved with a "project" that never got off the ground. I was even warned off involvement by may agent at the time, but I got involved while we were doing it, it was fun. It was a good experience and one that I do look back on fondly.

Let's face it, never beieve promises of big bucks or allow yourself to delude yourself about start-dom. It is hard work and takes time. If and when it does come, it'll be all the sweeter because you didn't expect it.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
who can also sing and dance
Fight/Sword Choreographer
Virgin Director
UPstageWA Rep

Home Page

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